Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

Show Your US 1851-57 Imperforate Stamps

Previous Page | Next Page    
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 2,283 / Views: 103,060Next Topic
Page: of 153
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1946 Posts
Posted 06/23/2022   11:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi StampGuy64,

I plated your 3-cent imperforate stamp with the black Philadelphia cancel to position 87R2L using the first image you posted today. So your stamp was cut from the 87th position of the right pane of a sheet of 200 stamps printed from plate 2 in the late state.

Only #11As were printed from plate 2L.

It's hard to see on your image, but you should be able to see with a magnifier that, in addition to one vertical line recut in the upper-left triangle, as ioagoa noted, your stamp also has one vertical line recut in the lower-right triangle. These two recuts, in addition to the close spacing from the adjacent stamp at left, and the frame line curves, helped determine what plate your stamp was printed from, and the sheet position.

The first image below shows the recuts pointed out on 87R2L on the Carroll Chase print from the Smithsonian. The second image shows your stamp with three other examples of 87R2L in a vertically-compressed image format that helps visualize the distinct frame line curves that enable matching your stamp to a specific plate and position.



Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
164 Posts
Posted 06/24/2022   04:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StampGuy64 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
An orange-red it is then, which isn't bad at all, and a part of the dull-red family of shades.

Unfortunately, the site will not allow for uploading a 1200 dpi image, not my own anyway; my apologies.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by StampGuy64 - 06/24/2022 05:01 am
Valued Member
United States
98 Posts
Posted 06/24/2022   11:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If these perforated examples are a problem, someone please send me a private note. I am just assuming that they are close enough to the intent of this thread to be acceptable.

Plate 5 in its late state developed a crack at the bottom of the left pane. It shows up in position 84 & 94.
_______________

On Page 54, Chase describes this crack and provides an image depicting it:

"The most marked of the four major cracks on plate 5(L) starts at the bottom of the plate and runs up across the right side of 94L5(L) and 84L5(L), and shows slightly on the lower right corner of 74L5 (L) (see Figure 34). This crack became slightly worse as time went on, being noticeably plainer on the perforated stamps than on the earliest printings."
________________

On page 199, Chase discusses Plate 5 L as follows:

"PLATE 5 (LATE)
"This state of the plate came into existence late in the year 1855, perhaps about the first of September, the earliest date of use I have no ted being September 3,1855. The plate was probably used continuously, or almost so, until the perforation of stamps began February 24, 1857, and for a very short period after that. By this time the strongest crack had probably become so bad that the plate was permanently discarded."

"I figure that approximately 20,569,800 stamps (102,849 impressions) were printed from this plate and issued imperforate while 581,300 (2,906 impressions) were issued perforated. Imperforate stamps from this plate are moderately scarce,
as it was used less than any other plate excepting plate 8, and a very few plates or states of plates in use only in 1851. I have been able to reconstruct it completely."

"Perforated, they are decidedly rare, although a bit more common than the perforated stamps from plates 2(L) and 3. The plate never showed any signs of wear."
_____________
Scott's #25 & #25A were basically the first perforation attempts (1857) on the 3c Washington stamps. They discovered that the plates did not have adequate spacing to allow for perforations and the plates were soon revised to provide more space. These new plates created the very similar designs of Scott's #26A & #26.

Because of the short usage of these plates for perforated stamps, they are quite scarce.
Some plates more-so than others.

CHASE's Estimate of Scott #25A Issue Quantity by Plate:
Plate 2L - 2,423 impressions (484,500 stamps)
Plate 3 - 2,423 impressions (484,500 stamps)
Plate 5L - 2,906 impressions (581,300 stamps)

You can compare these numbers to the perforated #25 -
CHASE's Estimates of Scott #25 Issue Quantity by Plate:
Plate 4 - 38,756 impressions (7,751,200 perforated stamps)
Plate 6 - 38,756 impressions (7,751,200 perforated stamps)
Plate 7 - 77,512 impressions (15,502,500 perforated stamps)
Plate 8 - 31,005 impressions (6,201,000 perforated stamps)

A normal #25 (inner lines not recut) is listed in Scott's Specialized Catalogue of United States Stamps with a value of $190.
A normal #25A (inner lines recut) is listed at $900.

Scott's provides a note for these early perforated varieties:
"No. 25A is valued in the grade of fine with perforation touching or cutting slightly on 1 or 2 sides."
While plate 5 Late produced over half a million perforated stamps with its 2,906 impressions, the reality is that this only leaves 2,906 of any particular position being produced.

I don't know what the survival rate was for these cracked plate varieties, but from 1857 until 2022 is 165 years. That is a long time for these fragile pieces of paper to be kept.

The crack is plainly visible in these examples.

Enjoy!
As always, from the collection of Stanly M. Shepp.



Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
10548 Posts
Posted 06/24/2022   12:01 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi stanshepp,
The perforated stamp posts are 'off-topic' for this thread. If desired, I can 'split' these off to a new thread and perhaps name it 'Show Your US 1851-57 Perforate Stamps'?
Don
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
865 Posts
Posted 06/24/2022   12:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Caper123 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Beautiful Stan!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1946 Posts
Posted 06/24/2022   12:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
mootermutt987 started a sister topic to this one titled; "Show Your US 1857 Perforated Stamps"

http://goscf.com/t/72893
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
10548 Posts
Posted 06/24/2022   12:44 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ah rats. I cannot 'split' these posts into an existing thread.
Don
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
164 Posts
Posted 06/24/2022   9:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StampGuy64 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As the fickle finger of fate would have it, I, too, have a few connections to U.S. postal history, but only to the subjects portrayed upon them. I descend from John Franklin, Benjamin's eldest brother, who was also a printer, who lived and worked in relative obscurity in Rhode Island. Benjamin was the youngest of Josiah's and Abiah's sons. As a result of so many brothers, I suspect that there are more nephews of Benjamin Franklin running round these days than at whom one might shake a lightning-rod. Incidentally, I've always wanted one of those. That's on my father's side. On my mother's, I am a distant relation of Patrick Henry of Virginia; and of James Buchanan, the 15th president, of Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, who had visited my ancestress, at least once, his niece likely, at her home prior to the war.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
98 Posts
Posted 06/25/2022   4:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Today, I will attempt to repent for the perforated posts.

I will start by sharing a couple of images that aren't necessarily anything special, but ones that I like.
Recent acquisitions and scanned this morning.
____________________________________

The first one - a #10A - plated as 18L1i.
A relief, no dots, 2 inner lines, small black Boston PAID cancel, ink slightly smudged on Washington's head.
I was sorting through some plate 1i stamps and came across this one and thought that maybe it should be graded.
It is hard enough to find a #10 or #10A with 4 full margins - but this one seemed to be a little bit larger than normal.
It shows the stamp to the right and the stamp below. The left margin is more than adequate. The top margin - well, I don't know.
It would have to obtain a minimum 85 to make it worth the graded cert (PSE SMQ $230) and a 90 would be better (PSE SMQ $365)
I highly doubt that it would get to a 95 (PSE SMQ $1,100), but that would be awesome.
I have a few graded 90+ laying around here somewhere. :)

____________________________________

The second example here was previously plated as a 51R1i - Which is a #10A - but I cannot seem to find the inner line recuts on this example.
It looks like a #10 to me. Maybe someone who has better eyes and ability can chime in on whether or not that plating is correct.
Regardless, I shared it today because of what Simpson's categorizes as an "L24 - Fancy, not otherwise categorized" (page 127)
An asterisk might be a better description.

There are several similar cancels listed in Simpson's, but this one in particular seems to have 5 lines that create it.
Knight's Ferry, CA (#12 - p.128) is similar, but consists of 3 crossing lines.
Belfast, Maine (#84 p. 135) is again only 3 lines.
Morrisania, NY (#243 p. 147) consists of 4 lines.
None listed with 5 lines.

I think Skinner & Eno would have called this a "pin wheel" or a "cog wheel", but they didn't have any tracings that matched.
Cole would have probably called it a "simple geometric" but again, he didn't provide any tracings of it.
Anyway, I am happy to call it an "5 line asterisk, location unknown." Still a pretty cool cancel.
I just wish the upper left corner wasn't cropped.

____________________________________

The third stamp is a fairly late usage, with a BLUE, March 5, 1852, Gardiner, Maine CDS on a brownish-ly aged piece of an envelope.
Plated as 95R1i, B-relief, no dots, right inner line only, double transfer.
It might be a late usage, but it appears to be an early printing. The color is amazing. The crispness of the design is amazing.
The contrast between the stamp color and the envelope is eye catching. The blue cancel just adds to the eye appeal.
The tear in the upper right corner and the way the scissors cut into the right hand side kind of sucks.
But I really like Washington's portrait with the blue 5.
Not a valuable stamp, but I enjoy looking at it.

I hope you all do as well -
And I hope this gets me partially out of the dog house for posting those perforated stamps!

If not, I have some better items to share (soon) that should get me completely out. :)

Enjoy!
Stan Shepp



Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
98 Posts
Posted 06/25/2022   11:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
#10A with a Brown '7-bars in a circle' grid Cancel.
2007 Philatelic Foundation Certificate

Scott's Specialized catalogue says a Brown cancel adds a $40 premium to the value of this stamp.

IMO, that is *severely* undervalued. Brown cancels are extremely rare on these stamps.

I have a couple on #11/A's, but very few on #10/A's.
I think I have more Green cancels. (+$235)

Care to share yours?
Or at least say how many you have?

Stan Shepp

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
98 Posts
Posted 06/26/2022   12:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Simpson's lists this Germantown, NJ 'script style' straightline cancel as a rarity 10 - meaning it is unique, or one of a kind. My example, on a #10A, doesn't have a manuscript date added to it.

2012 PF Certificate

I'm pretty sure that my copy isn't the listing copy, so that makes this a rarity 9 (2-3 copies known) and not a rarity 10.

Nicely cancelled across a #10A.




Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
1409 Posts
Posted 06/26/2022   10:54 am  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This pair was plated 7-8R2 but I'm not convinced. The guide dots don't seem to be exactly right and I'm not seeing some of the Deporto marks. What do you guys think?

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
4362 Posts
Posted 06/26/2022   11:20 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
cancel as a rarity 10 - meaning it is unique, or one of a kind.


Which means the author was aware of only one example when the book was written. Always to be taken with a grain of salt, and seldom with any guarantee of uniqueness.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1609 Posts
Posted 06/26/2022   12:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dudley to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
rlsny, I think 7-8R2 is correct. The DT marks in the top ornaments of 8R2 are a good match for both the Doporto image and the Neinken drawing.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
1409 Posts
Posted 06/26/2022   1:57 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks dudley - I'm still very much a newbie at interpreting the the dots and dashes on those diagrams.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Page: of 153 Previous TopicReplies: 2,283 / Views: 103,060Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2022 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2022 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.43 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05