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Show Your US 1851-57 Imperforate Stamps

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Author Replies: 2,635 / Views: 131,130Next Topic
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Valued Member
United States
378 Posts
Posted 09/13/2022   2:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Harper --

I don't have the bandwidth today to confirm your 66R4 -- but in the meantime -- I can tell you that the copy currently slotted as 66R4 on StampPlating is actually 21L4.

The owner of StampPlating is aware of this and has plans to get it corrected.

Regards // ioagoa
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United States
378 Posts
Posted 09/13/2022   8:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Harper --

I have not had any time today to study your 66R4 -- but I am attaching another confirmed reference copy of the position for your use -- mainly because that extension of the LFL at its upper end that you mentioned is clearly visible at the bottom of the adjoining 56R4 in the attached scan.

FYI -- It looks like the bottom end of the LFL on 56R4 extends down a touch -- but under zoom enlargement -- it appears that there is a teeny break between the extensions of the respective LFL's between the two stamps (at least on my copy).

If you want a full sized 1200dpi scan of the stamp below (versus the 300kb shrunk down SCF version) -- send me a message and I will be happy to provide.

Regards // ioagoa

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190 Posts
Posted 09/14/2022   09:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Harper1249 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is very helpful Ioagoa. Thank you you posting it. I am feeling very confident 66R4 is the correct position.

Harper1249
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22 Posts
Posted 09/14/2022   4:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 40yearBreak to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks to ioagoa and Harper1249 for the warm welcome to this discussion.

And thanks ioagoa for steering me in a direction on my first attempted plating. I was hoping that one of the experienced plater's would call out the plate and I could start my searching from there, as you did. I did a quick review of the reference images of plate 4 on stampplating.com and quickly saw what you meant about the LFL proximity to the design. It appears quite a number of the plate 4 stamps can be quickly eliminated with the one feature alone.
As far as color goes, that is also a skill I need to refine quite a bit, but my first inclination is that this stamp is either brownish carmine or claret.

By the way, I chose this stamp to start plating with over the dozen or so other A10's that I have, because even though it was missing the right side, it is one of my clearer impressions and has a light cancellation that I thought might help move things along.

I will work on the plating elimination process (which is likely to go quite slowly given my newness to this) and then come back when I either think I have it figured out, or I hit a roadblock. Thanks again.
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378 Posts
Posted 09/14/2022   7:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi 40YearBreak --

I notice that you mentioned in your last post that you have around a dozen or so other 3c 1851 imperforates -- and you also mentioned that you are relatively new to plating. Given these 2 factors -- I would suggest that you find a stamp in the dozen or so that you have where the inner lines are recut -- and if possible -- one with a visible guide dot.

As I mentioned in my last post -- plate 4 stamps can be among the most difficult to plate -- and yours is missing the entire RFL -- and likewise has no obvious variety of recutting -- which makes it even more challenging.

If you have any stamps with recut inner lines -- you have the added plating characteristics of the relationship of the inner lines to the FL's -- and also the end points of the inner lines relative to the rosettes.

I am not trying to discourage you in any way from plating your 3-margin, no-inner line stamp -- all I am saying is that particular stamp would be a challenge for even the most experienced of platers -- and if you have others where the inner lines have been recut and with a GD showing -- you may want to try those first.

If you wanted to post an image of any other stamps, I (and others on this forum), would be happy to provide commentary that would get you pointed in the right direction.

Regards // ioagoa
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Posted 09/14/2022   9:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Harper1249 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Adding on to what Ioagoa has said, I would recommend you download the images of the Chase Platings from the Smithsonian at the following link:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/natio...33055785484/

These images allow you to view the entire plate at one time. You can easily move from one stamp to another and easily look at adjacent stamps when needed. I find them to be crucial to me being able to accurately plate these stamps.

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22 Posts
Posted 09/16/2022   7:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 40yearBreak to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I did see the additional note from ioagoa on recommending trying a find a different 3c imperforate to use as my first attempt at plating, but I had already started the process and decided to see if I could find a match on this first one even though it is missing the entire RFL.

Ioagoa said this appeared to be a Relief B, and I agreed as the impingement at the bottom looks pretty notable.

I believe I have successfully plated this stamp and would hope someone can confirm it. My process went like this:
- Plate 4 has 100 relief B's.
- Of those, I believe 79 are eliminated because the LFL is so close that it touches the UL rosette, which mine does not, this got me down to 21 candidates.
- Of the 21, 17 were eliminated due to notable openings where the LFL and TFL meet, or notably different TFL to TLB spacing. This left 4 candidates.
- Only 2 of the 4 matched distinct TLB recuts where the top left corner and bottom right corners were extended to make it look like the TLB was tilted to the left.
-At this point I was leaning to 24R4, which was confirmed by matching the unique extra-long re-cut of the RFL on the neighboring 23R4 that extends above the TFL.

Again, if someone could confirm I got the right location, it would be much appreciated. Thanks.


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Edited by 40yearBreak - 09/16/2022 7:57 pm
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378 Posts
Posted 09/17/2022   11:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi 40YearBreak --

I agree that your stamp is position 24R4. Couple of comments:

-- Another confirming feature for your stamp is that one of the reference copies on StampSmarter shows the alignment of the upper right corner of 23R4 with the upper left corner of 24R4 -- and this same reference stamp also shows the alignment of the lower left corner of 24R4 with the upper left corner of 34R4 -- and these are both a solid match to your stamp. If you have not yet done so, you should check out the StampSmarter reference copy for 24R4 (more specifically, that one that is in the "Image 1" slot) -- and see what you think.

-- The LFL on 24R4, in addition to the bends and its "white spacing" relationship to the stamp design, rosettes, and diamond blocks, also has some distinctive stronger and weaker recut sections -- and this is a solid match.

-- Not sure if you use the "compression technique" that you have surely read about in this thread -- but if you do -- please note that there are a few creases and bends in your stamp that will distort things a bit -- most notably there is a diagonal crease at the upper left corner -- and what looks like it might be a more subtle, lighter diagonal bend at the lower left corner.

Nice plating job on a tough stamp (too bad the GD was cut-off).

Regards // ioagoa

edited to correct typos and "left / right" transposition.
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Edited by ioagoa - 09/17/2022 11:35 am
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22 Posts
Posted 09/17/2022   6:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 40yearBreak to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ioagoa,

Thanks for the confirmation of my plating effort on the 24R4.

I did all of my plating from the images on stampplating.com. I should have also confirmed it with stampsmarter.com, but did not this time, and will in the future. I did check the stampsmarter.com image after your recommendation. I also am aware of the compression technique, but did not use it this time.

I went back through my other A10's and found only one with a guide dot. I figured I would try to plate this one next.

I was surprised when I flipped it over and saw plating information on the back. I read it as 80L3, but it does not match. Could others tell me what they see in the writing on the back of the stamp?

This stamp appears to have the general characteristics of Plate 4 and not 3 I believe. I believe I also see the impingement at the bottom of the oval making it a Relief B. Before I start the detailed plating effort, I would appreciate if someone could verify the likely Plate and Relief. Thanks.





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United States
1997 Posts
Posted 09/17/2022   7:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi 40yearBreak,

I'm very impressed by your ability to plate the stamp that ioagoa confirmed as 24R4. That is a truly tough stamp to plate.

You're absolutely correct that the stamp in your most recent post is a B-relief from plate 4. With that said, this stamp should be much easier to plate. Aside from the incorrect 80L3 notation that you noted, I can't make much sense of the other writing on the back. Nothing looks like the sheet position notation that I found it to be. Let's see what you come up with.
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Posted 09/18/2022   1:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jaxom100 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi 40yearBreak,
Your stamp is an 11 not 11A so it can only be plate 4, 6, 7, or 8. Be careful of the Lund images on plate 4 at the Stamp plating website. There are 17 incorrect images on plate 4 there. Try the compression technique. My guide dot charts and compression charts may help you a lot. They are available on the Stamp Smarter website Although I have not done plate 6R, 7 or 8 yet. I do have all the 11As done.
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Posted 09/18/2022   4:48 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'd like to try to plate this type IV - anyone want to hazard a guess on starting plate?

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United States
22 Posts
Posted 09/18/2022   6:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 40yearBreak to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Classic Coins thanks for the positive comments on my first plating (24R4) and for confirming that my second stamp shown here again is a B Relief Plate 4.

Jaxom100 thanks for the pointer about the stampplating.com Plate 4 issues. I definitely noticed it this time around as a few of the guide dots were significant mismatches on several stamps between the Chase and Lund versions. This time around, I used the stampplating.com and stampsmarter.com sites images at the same time and all of the stampsmarter.com reference images matched the Chase images.

I am pretty confident that my stamp is 43R4. I only found two images with a matching GD, and only one with the very distinctive extra-long RFL from the stamp below, i.e. 53R4 in this case.

Is this what you found also Classic Coins?



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Posted 09/18/2022   8:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi 40yearBreak,

Yes, I also plated your stamp to position 43R4. Well done!
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Posted 09/18/2022   9:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rgstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
rlsny

I would start top row plate 1L,

Guide dot upper right only found top row
Single recut lower curve

Should be easy to narrow down.
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