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Show Your US 1851-57 Imperforate Stamps

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Valued Member
United States
361 Posts
Posted 09/21/2022   9:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hey Stan --

Regarding that stamp on your Lockport NY / Pensocola FL cover -- you wrote:


Quote:
The closest I could come is 15L2E and would like to get some feedback on that plating.


I have not had a chance to plate your stamp -- but I don't think it is 15L2E -- as that right margin is too wide to be an interpane position.

The stamp is definitely an A relief -- and has 1-line recut in the ULT -- and given that super wide right margin -- is surely from the 10th vertical column.

Hope this helps a little -- and am happy to confirm once you give it anther go-round.

Regards // ioagoa

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Edited by ioagoa - 09/21/2022 9:27 pm
Valued Member
United States
198 Posts
Posted 09/21/2022   10:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Using the Plating Wizard, Limiting it to plates 2E and 0 (I think it's one of those two)
A relief, No Guide Dot, Both Inner Lines recut, 1 Line in UL Triangle recut -

The only 10th row (column) stamps that come up are:
80L2E
60R2E
80L0

I really didn't like any of those.

I looked at them each a dozen times - because that right margin is so big - it *has* to be right column, right?!? Right?!?

Lund's 60R2E has a large right margin and shows the imprint - and it seems like this margin is at least that big. The imprint should show.

I also tried to confirm with what looks like a stray guide dot in the UR corner of the stamp below - to no avail.

I might be on the wrong plates. <sigh>

Stan Shepp
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Edited by stanshepp - 09/21/2022 10:09 pm
Valued Member
United States
361 Posts
Posted 09/21/2022   10:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Stan --

I plated the stamp on your Lockport NY / Pensocola FL cover to position 60L5E.

Attached is another reference copy from my plating.

Check it out and see what you think.

Regards // ioagoa

Reference copy of 60L5E below:

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Valued Member
United States
198 Posts
Posted 09/22/2022   01:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I never would have gotten it from Chase's example. Lund's, maybe - if I had been on the right plate.

Again, Kelleher's "Copper Orange Brown" isn't even a possibility. :(

Your example is beautiful.

I am a fan of GLOUCESTER's cancel.

Thank you.

Did you see my strip of #26A's on the perforated thread? I emailed it earlier this evening, but I think the image was too large for your email server and it bounced back.

Stan
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Edited by stanshepp - 09/22/2022 01:09 am
Valued Member
United States
198 Posts
Posted 09/22/2022   01:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
My GLOUCESTER cancel is one of my favorite stamps. I had a jigsaw puzzle made of this one. I haven't assembled it yet, as I'm still recovering from the last puzzle I assembled.


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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1034 Posts
Posted 09/22/2022   03:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Some well-struck, centrally-struck, bold and beautiful cds's just COMPEL us to like them! Give me a variety of colors and I just salivate.
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Valued Member
United States
198 Posts
Posted 09/22/2022   05:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I wish there was a way to take the stampplating website and to find the best examples for each position from the entire collecting community and have it pop up. There are so many people who have amazingly clear examples of the various positions that it could be so much better. One person is never going to own the best example of every position.
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United States
14 Posts
Posted 09/22/2022   2:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 40yearBreak to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
On my 1L stamp, I believe I have correctly plated it to 38R1L.

Admittedly, I struggled more with this one than I did with either of the prior two Plate 4 stamps that I plated. I even attempted the compression technic, but I struggled with getting the vertical alignment of the stamp just right. Still, it seemed to confirm the plating.

I would appreciate if someone could confirm if 38R1L is correct. Thanks.

Also, I know colors are difficult to confirm with scans and computer screens, but does that cancel look blue to others? If not, what color?


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Posted 09/22/2022   11:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Harper1249 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
40yearBreak,

I compared your specimen with SSD, Chase and Lund position 38R1L and they match up nicely. I think you have plated it correctly but will defer to Ioagoa, ClassicCoin or other experts to confirm it. I am also seeing a small part of the upper label block just above the left part of the "U" in "U.S" that doesn't appear to have been recut. It is present in all the examples I looked at including yours.

As for getting these stamps aligned vertically, I always use the vertical tessellation on the left side and "straighten" the image from this area. It usually gives me a nice alignment. I've attached an image showing a black line that highlights the portion of the tessellation I use to "straighten" the image.

Nice job on plating this one.

Harper1249

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United States
361 Posts
Posted 09/22/2022   11:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi 40yearBreak --

I agree with Harper that you plated your stamp correctly as position 38R1L (nice work on this one).

Attached below is another reference copy from my plating.

Not the best impression -- but a solid match nonetheless.

Regards // ioagoa

Additional reference copy of position 38R1L...

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Edited by ioagoa - 09/22/2022 11:53 pm
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United States
14 Posts
Posted 09/24/2022   8:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 40yearBreak to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Harper1249, Ioagoa,

Thanks for confirming my plating of the 38R1L.

And thanks Harper1249 for the assistance on alignment for image compression. I kept trying to use the FL's none of which seem to be straight which just led to frustration. Using the tessellation line makes a lot more sense.

Ioagoa that is a nice 4 margin 38R1L you posted. Thanks.

Before I attempt the next plating, I had a question on grading. I like to record all my earlier US stamps with a grade per the Scott US Specialized Catalogue. This is pretty straight forward for perforated stamps, but can be harder for these imperforates. The catalogue acknowledges that these 1851-1857 3c imperforate stamps have very small margins between stamps and that this is "taken into consideration on grading". Given that they are imperforate and had to be separated by scissors or tearing, it seems that the vast majority of these stamps will have at least one side cut or torn into. Are all of these stamps that are cut into on one side or more truly considered to be the lowest grade of Very Good (50)?
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Posted 09/24/2022   9:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The PSE offers the following in regard to grading early imperfs (link to entire PDF after the following text):

Imperforate Issues

There are two different kinds of imperforate issues. First, there are
the 1847-1856 classic imperforates, Scott Nos. 1-17, and then there are
all the early 20th century imperforates ranging from Scott No. 314 up
through the Farley imperforate Scott No. 771.
The margins for all the imperforates can exist in a huge range of sizes
and can be cut parallel to the design or on a very significant slant. If the
margin sizes of any stamp differ greatly, or are cut on a slant, PSE grades
the centering according to what the stamp would look like if it were cut
(blocked off) in such a way as to maximize its centering appearance. For
example, assume that the left margin is triple that of the right. If it could
be cut down to equal the right margin, and such a move would then yield
a centering grade of 90, then PSE will assign a centering grade of 90.
Generally, collectors prefer imperforate stamps to be rectangular.
Accordingly, if one or more margins have a significant slant, then PSE will
block off part of the margin or margins to optimize the centering, and
assign a grade based on that "idealized" appearance.
Having said that the centering grade of any imperforate is based upon
an optimized appearance, the centering of a Scott No. 11 cannot be
graded in the same way as for a Scott No. 371. For centering standards
for the 1847-1856 classic imperforates, readers are referred to the photographs in the center section of this guide. For these stamps, a picture is
worth a thousand words.
Grading the centering of the early 20th century imperforates is much
like that for their perforated counterparts, but the margin sizes must be
larger for all centering grades of 70 and higher.
Many 20th century imperforate stamps have been cut from multiples
so that they have very large margins. PSE has adopted the following
centering standards for these extremely large, "hand-made" stamps:
Centering Grade Description
100J Must show part of the design on all eight surrounding
stamps, or part of the design of five surrounding stamps
with the fourth margin having a Plate number.
100 Margins cut to the frameline of, but not into the
surrounding stamps. A fourth margin could be from a
sheet edge if at least equal in size to the other three sides.
15
In the past, PSE has given 98J centering grades to stamps which
show parts of the design of five surrounding stamps, with the fourth
margin being from a sheet edge at least equal in size to the other margins.
PSE has also given that grade to corner margin singles with parts of the
design of the three adjacent stamps showing.
Since such stamps could easily be cut down to make ordinary 100
centering, they will now be graded 100. There will no longer be a 98J
centering grade for these imperforate stamps.
98 All four margins clearly larger than one-half the space
between the stamps on the sheet.
95 All four margins roughly equal to one-half the space
between the stamps on the sheet. PSE does not assign
a 95J centering grade for 20th century imperforates.
90 All four margins generous, but slightly smaller than onehalf the space between the stamps on a sheet. PSE does
not assign a 90J centering grade for these imperforates.
For photograhs of actual stamps, the reader is again referred to the
photographic guide in the center of this booklet

file:///C:/Users/rogdc/Desktop/2009...e_092009.pdf
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Valued Member
United States
198 Posts
Posted 09/25/2022   12:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sharing a real unicorn today.

Priced by Scott's as:

On cover (3c circular rate, 1000-1500 miles) - $1000

The price isn't even in italics - but it should be.

Scott Steward gave a presentation (power point image shown at the end of this post) on printed circulars where he contended that this folded, unsealed circular doesn't exist. Yet, here it is.

US Philatelic Classics Society
"U.S. Domestically Mailed Circulars to 1900 by Scott Steward"
APRIL 12, 2021

https://www.uspcs.org/videos-uspcs/...ott-steward/

I had purchased one described as such from Golden Oaks Auctions, which had a lengthy letter included and the discussion ensued about what it takes to qualify. A phone call to Stanley Piller later, and he explained to me that he had never seen one. To qualify, it not only needed to be unsealed, but it also could not include a private, handwritten message.

This example is unsealed and although there is a handwritten message, it is only, "Forwarded by Jos G. Whitaker".

My contention is that this handwritten message is not extensive enough for a postmaster to have not accepted the 3c circular rate and demanded the 3c regular rate.

Yeah. It's a fine hair to be splitting, but in my mind, I've succeeded in splitting it and have found a cover that qualifies for the 3c, unsealed circular rate.

Here are enough images to allow you to make your own conclusions.

Stan Shepp










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Edited by stanshepp - 09/25/2022 12:49 pm
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176 Posts
Posted 09/27/2022   11:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Harper1249 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Greetings all. I came across several stamps in the SSD that I believe are not in their correct positions. They are all part of a block of four and are currently in the "Image 1" column for positions 67-68R4 and 77-78R4. I believe they are actually 27-28R4 and 37-38R4. If folks are in agreement, then I will move them to their correct positions.

Regards,
Harper
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1084 Posts
Posted 09/28/2022   01:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jaxom100 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Harper, Looking at the compression images, you may be correct. The frame lines are real weak.
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