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Show Your US 1851-57 Imperforate Stamps

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Posted 12/03/2022   10:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ioagoa,

That helps a great deal.

I appreciate your response - and yes,
I transposed the L & R.

Stan Shepp
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Posted 12/04/2022   8:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This, 1c Blue, Ty. Ib-I-Ib (5A-5-5A) positions 6-8R1E, is back on the market in Sale 1272, lot 3277, in Siegel's 12/14-15/2022 Postal History Auction:



Consigned by a brick and mortar store dealer after it walked in with a group stamps he purchased earlier this year. The cover was tucked away out of sight separated from the many classic stamps.

Edited to add types.
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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 12/04/2022 8:16 pm
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372 Posts
Posted 12/05/2022   8:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Stan --

I wanted to follow-up regarding the plating of the stamp on your cover with the blue "MAD RIV.&LAK.ERIE R.R." CDS -- the one with the missing date slug -- and where the stamp has a straight-line "FREE" handstamp cancel.

I spent some time this afternoon studying your stamp against multiple confirmed copies of both 24R1E and 24R1i.

This is a very curious position -- and very easy to tell Early from Intermediate.

On Early state -- the left edge (top third of the stamp) is "short transferred". The left side of the ULT is missing, and the tessellated work below the ULR is unusually weak. This was all restored by the re-entry of the design from the transfer roll when 1E became 1i. Compare the Chase photos and you can clearly see what I am talking about.

By the way -- "short transfer" is probably not a good term for what caused this. More likely, TCC may have "over burnished" the left edge of this position after the initial 200 entries were rocked into the plate (but before they started in on the recutting).

In any event -- I am 100% confident that your stamp is, in fact, 24R1E.

// ioagoa

PS -- just checked StampSmarter -- and the copy that is currently in the #1 slot for 24R1i (the one with the 7-bar circular grid cancel) is actually 24R1E. This is a good example of how plate wear can distort things -- as if not for that missing piece of the ULT -- this stamp could easily be mistaken for Inter state. If somebody with the "power" could relocate that stamp to its proper place in the SS data base it would be appreciated.
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Edited by ioagoa - 12/05/2022 8:49 pm
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Posted 12/06/2022   1:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi ioagoa,

Nice work on the 24R1E plating. Thanks for the excellent writeup on differentiating between 24R1E and 24R1i.

I moved the stamp image with the 7-bar circular grid cancel to the 24R1E space on Stamp Smarter, and bumped the 24R1i image up to the #1 slot. It's nice to see that 24R1E space filled!
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Posted 12/06/2022   5:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hey all!

This stamp is about as worn as I have seen on a #10/A stamp.

Used from Boston on October 28, 1851 - and plated as 4L5E - B relief, no guide dot, double transfer, recut right inner line only.

Thoughts on plating?

Stan Shepp



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Posted 12/06/2022   5:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't share a whole lot of 1c stamps, but I will share this strip of three Scott #7's with a manuscript (pen) cancel.

I have not attempted to plate this, but there appears to be a guide dot at the lower right of the left two stamps and one at the upper right of the center stamp.

Stan Shepp

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Posted 12/06/2022   5:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
U.S. 3c Orange Brown Type II Scott 10A Position 11-12L2E on July 30, (1851) 6c rate cover from Stockton, CA to Bennington Center, VT.

Dr. Chase, in his epic 3c reference book, "THE 3c STAMP OF THE UNITED STATES 1851-1857 ISSUE" wrote that Plate 2 was probably made in late July, 1851 and that the earliest known use of a Plate 2 Early stamp is Aug. 2, 1851. This example is clearly dated July 30th, 1851.

Dr. Chase revised his book in 1942, so almost 80 years ago. It is possible that someone else has discovered an earlier usage, but until I see it, I am going to call this the EKU - Earliest Known Use - of a Plate 2 Early example. (I might be wrong, but someone will correct me - they always do.)
_______________________
Dr. Chase writes:

Chapter X, Page 93

PLATE 2 (EARLY)

"This plate was probably made late in July, 1851. It exists in two states, early and late, and each of the states will be described as though it was a separate plate.
The date of the earliest known copy from plate 2 (early state ) is August 2, 1851, and the plate was probably used continuously until late in the year 1851, when it was softened, to a considerable extent, re-entered , touched up a bit by hand, a number was added, after which it was re-hardened and again put in use, thus accounting for the second state of the plate. All of the stamps from the early state of this plate are in the 1851 (orange-brown) color."

"Approximately 4,169,800 stamps (20,849 impressions) were printed from the plate, hence they are rare. Had it not been for the fact that I was able to plate single copies of plate 2(e) from stamps of known position in plate 2(L) I might not have been able to complete the reconstruction of this plate. As it is, I have been able to complete it."

"The plate in this state showed ,no wear."
_______________________
Scott's lists Plate 2E as having an EKU date of July 21st & I found another listing stating July 23rd. Scott's listing for the 3c Washingtons are not necessarily correct and I don't out much confidence in their listings. #128577;
Either way, this is a very early use of a plate 2 stamp.
_______________________
This (CDS) cancel is identified and given a rarity "4" by Williams - which correlates to "Very Scarce" 50-100 known.
John H. Williams, in his 2 volume work, "CALIFORNIA TOWN POSTMARKS 1849-1935", lists a similar 31.5mm CDS to the "JUL 30 STOCKTON CAL" CDS on this cover on Page 1015 (Volume 2), identified as "SAJ-2320". His tracing has a period "." after CAL.
This example does not have any remnant of such a period, but I believe this to be the same marking. His listing shows the Earliest know use of this CDS is "30 NOV 1850". The next 31.5mm CDS from Stockton, California isn't until April 15, 1853 - and the location of the "CAL" is different, as well as the font.
_______________________
The blue, 8-piece "pie" geometric cancel is unlisted as being from Stockton in Skinner & Eno and doesn't show up in Simpson's, either. Such cancels became more and more common as time went on, but such cancels on early 3c stamps is rare.
_______________________
I will include a closeup of the pair - and this pair shows a stray vertical engraving line between the stamps. It is located to the left of the upper left rosette of the right stamp. Most examples of this stray line are lost when the stamps were cut apart and this examples shows it nicely.

Overall - this is a very nice cover and I am happy to add it to my dated cover collection.

Stan Shepp


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Posted 12/07/2022   5:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I am leaning towards 1L3

Both inner lines recut, B-relief, UL dot, Double Transfer.

And any ideas on the CDS? ....PLEFORKS ??

Thoughts or confirmation appreciated.

Thanks!

Stan Shepp

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Edited by stanshepp - 12/07/2022 6:08 pm
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Posted 12/07/2022   6:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Leaning towards 5L1L on this one.

This one should be gradable at 90+, In my opinion.

Thoughts?

Stan Shepp

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Edited by stanshepp - 12/07/2022 6:05 pm
Valued Member
United States
372 Posts
Posted 12/07/2022   6:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hey Stan --

Regarding the stamp you posted yesterday with the small Boston PAID cancel -- the one that was described as being used from Boston on October 28, 1851 -- and plated as 4L5E -- and for which you asked for "thoughts on plating" -- I took a look at the stamp this afternoon and plated it to position 65R1i.

We seem to have had a rash of 1E / 1i stamps coming through recently -- and thankfully, this one is another position that is very easy to tell the difference between Early and Intermediate. There are many differences -- but here are the 3 most obvious:

-- On Early -- there is one line recut in the ULT -- but on Inter this line has essentially, completely worn away.

-- Another difference is the TFL -- which is noticeably weaker on Inter.

-- Additionally, if you look closely at the TFL -- above the P of POSTAGE it looks like the engraver possibly stopped the recut midline -- and then started again. On Early this "misaligned bend" is very noticeable -- versus on Inter where it has been significantly blurred by re-entry.

Reference copies of my 65R1E and 65R1i are attached for comparison.

Regards // ioagoa

PS -- (Different subject) -- On that stamp you just posted (probably as I was typing this) -- more specifically the top row stamp with the red cancel -- it cannot be position 1L3 as the RFL of the adjoining stamp shows at left.

Reference copy of my 65R1E is here


Reference copy of my 65R1i is here

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Edited by ioagoa - 12/07/2022 6:24 pm
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Posted 12/07/2022   9:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Stan- Just a guess, but how about Au Sable Forks in upstate NY for that cancel?
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United States
372 Posts
Posted 12/07/2022   9:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hey Stan --

Your top row stamp with the red cancel is position 6R3 -- one of my favorite plate 3 DT's -- as it has a "slash" in the center of both the ULDB and LRDB -- plus all the other DT "stuff" at top and bottom -- plus 1 line recut in the LLT.

Your copy has an impression that looks under-inked (or wiped too clean) -- which distorts the white spacing relationships a bit -- but on the other hand -- it sure makes the DT stand out in those diamond blocks.

// ioagoa
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United States
237 Posts
Posted 12/07/2022   9:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ioagoa,

I like your plating much better.

I dont mind people writing the plate positions on the backs of covers, but I like them to be right. :(

Plate 1i makes way more sense to me.

I might have time tomorrow to pull my 65R1i and compare it as well.

Thanks again for all the assistance you offer here.

Stan Shepp.
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Posted 12/07/2022   9:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ioagoa,

I have a place for it. :)

The scan looks a lot like my pinkish stamp, but less so in real life.

Stan Shepp


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United States
237 Posts
Posted 12/07/2022   9:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Mootermutt,

DiComo thought maybe Maple Forks, Alabama.

I haven't seen another to compare it to. I'll look for Au Sable Forks. NY.

Thanks!

Stan Shepp
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