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Show Your US 1851-57 Imperforate Stamps

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Posted 07/02/2020   10:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You're welcome, Ken. I appreciate the nice feedback.

That unique inking anomaly on your 8L1L could have something to do with the plate picking up too much ink in the deep recesses. The ink may have then gotten pulled to the right as the sheet was separated from the plate.
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Posted 07/02/2020   10:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Plating 101: Identifying plate 4 impressions

Plate 4 impressions are may be the second easiest to identify. Plate 4 traits are:

- No inner frame lines
- Top label block always recut at top (usually heavily)
- A heavily cut bottom frame line
- A left frame line that is 1) usually faint, 2) usually too close to the design (especially near the top), 3) frequently doubled

I'm re-posting position 50R4 here to show the traits.

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Posted 07/02/2020   10:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Laurie 02 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
CC, you have some excellent specimens!
This is my latest

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Posted 07/02/2020   11:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Plating 101: Identifying plate 8 impressions

Plate 8 impressions will generally show four heavy frame lines, especially the bottom, with no inner lines. There are 19 exceptions, all in the top row, that have faint top frame lines that were not recut.

Here two examples. The first is a re-post of 64L8 (my avatar). The second is position 3R8 showing a gash on shoulder and faint top frame line:


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Edited by Classic Coins - 07/02/2020 11:40 pm
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Posted 07/02/2020   11:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Laurie, That's a beautiful stamp with nice impression, color, and margins. Thanks for showing it.
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Posted 07/02/2020   11:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampcrow to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Oh, and stampcrow on that scale I'm about a 0.5!


Moyock13, not for long!!

You've been bitten.
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Posted 07/02/2020   11:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Laurie 02 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks CC I figure a break in the top has to be a 9?
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Posted 07/03/2020   08:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add banknoteguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

I found this 3c Imperforate an interesting case. Is it a 10A or and 11A. I am still not sure but hope someone here will have something definitive to say.

There are several interesting points about this stamp: single recut line ULT, GD lower right that looks like a tick mark, heavily recut upper outer RFL, ditto for right IFL and a strong left IFL. As a bonus it is a double transfer.




Definitely 26R2 but 2E or 2L? The color of the stamp side by side with other 10s looks O.B. but my image not so much. Base on the strength of the recuts, I leaned toward 2E but the quality of the impression makes me think 2L. Am I missing something definitive??

Images from the plating database of 26R2E and 26R2L below.



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Posted 07/03/2020   09:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Caper123 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just got around to plating this one.

Can anyone provide a contact for the 3c Plating Wizard for submitting scans of stamps they may want. For example this 47L7 (not super scan right now) to replace the one they have.

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Posted 07/03/2020   10:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Laurie, I don't see any recuts on your 1-cent stamp, so it's likely not a #9.
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Posted 07/03/2020   10:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi banknoteguy --

I believe that your 26R2 is from the late state of the plate - so would be 26R2L.

Very generally speaking, when plate 2E became plate 2L -- it was softened, re-entered, and touched up a little by hand. The extensive re-entry process resulted in most all of the recut lines, double transfers, etc., etc. showing much less distinctly on the late state of the plate -- and on some positions, the recutting on the early state of the plate became so badly blurred as to be indistinguishable -- or had disappeared all together on the late state.

On your stamp, in my opinion, I see many signs of re-entry. For example, the recut across the top of the upper label block and the recut horizontal line across the top of the URDB on your stamp are weaker than seen on the early state of the plate -- and are typical of the late state of the plate. Same goes for the DT in THREE CENTS in the lower label block. Another sign of re-entry is the weakening of the strength of the TFL. Finally, the 1 line in the ULT definitely looks late state to me.

I think if you compare your stamp against the 2 reference copies you posted, you should be able to see the differences I noted -- but if not, happy to have further discussion on this subject.

Regards // ioagoa

edited to add comment that the 1 line in the ULT is late state.

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Edited by ioagoa - 07/03/2020 12:00 pm
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Posted 07/03/2020   11:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Laurie - that's the same 1c stamp you posted earlier - and its 21R1E, Ty II #7, which I posted a few pages back.
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Posted 07/03/2020   12:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add banknoteguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

ioagoa

I understand your points. I think the strongest ones are the weaker DT and the recut across the top of the upper label block and the recut horizontal line across the top of the URDB.

Is the quality/sharpness of the impression not a factor?

[I am having a lot trouble typing this response. Double letters, bad lags, et. al. Anyone else seeing tthis? What kiind d o of host is this siite on?? The weirdness of the last sentence was the site not my typing.]
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Posted 07/03/2020   1:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi banknoteguy --


Quote:
Is the quality/sharpness of the impression not a factor?


YES -- the quality and sharpness of the impression is definitely a factor -- but it is one that involves many variables and is very difficult for me to articulate in words. That said, I will try my best with a couple of additional comments on this subject:

-- Regarding "impression" -- if you have not already done so, you should read the chapter in the Chase book on "Varieties of Impression" -- which provides a great overview of all the various factors impacting the overall impression of a printed stamp -- none of which have anything to do with the impact of the re-entry process when plate 2E became plate 2L -- but all of which can significantly impact the "quality and sharpness" of an impression.

-- Next -- with the Chase comments on "variety of impression" in mind -- lets assume that you had 2 stamps side by side with identically perfect impressions -- and from the same position on plate 2 -- one being from the early state and the other being from the late state, and presuming that the position was one where there was no additional touching up by hand -- then the only difference between the two -- aside from the color -- would theoretically be the impact of the re-entry process. This is where experience of studying many stamps over a long period of time comes into play -- and this is where I just don't know how to best articulate such experience into written words. When it comes to "sharpness of impression", some of the signs of re-entry that I look for are a very subtle "fuzziness" of the FL's -- which sometimes will also show a very short dash or two of a teeny miniscule doubling. Another thing that I sometimes look for are fatter rosette dots which sometime result from the re-entry process. Again -- all of these things can be very subtle -- and even with experience can be hard to see -- but as you gain more experience -- the subtler signs of re-entry will become more apparent.

-- Now let's really confuse things -- same scenario as above -- 2 stamps side by side -- and from the same position on plate 2 -- one being from the early state and the other being from the late state, and presuming that the position was one where there was no additional touching up by hand -- BUT -- this time the Early stamp is a late printing impression made just before 2E was taken out of service -- and the Late stamp is an impression from the first printing when 2L was initially placed into service. Now things get complicated because we are dealing with differences compounded by factors beyond just the re-entry -- including differences in the quality of the impression and plate wear. Again -- this is where experience comes into play in relying solely on the impression and the sharpness factors.

In conclusion -- YES -- sharpness and impression are factors -- but practically speaking, as I mentioned in my prior post, the extensive re-entry process when plate 2E became plate 2L resulted in most all of the recut lines, double transfers, etc., etc. showing much less distinctly on the late state of the plate -- and on some positions, the recutting on the early state of the plate became so badly blurred as to be indistinguishable -- or had disappeared all together on the late state. So, if you have a stamp where based on the color and overall impression you are on the fence as to early versus late state of the plate, I would start by looking at the strength of the horizontal recut across the top of the URDB -- which on 2E is always clearly defined -- and on 2L almost always became blurred to some extent due to the extensive re-entry process. Next, I would look at the TLB and the inner lines -- which on 2L are usually weaker than on 2E. Then any other recuts, the frame lines, etc., etc.

I could go on for another 10 pages on this subject -- so I will stop my rambling here -- but I think the above is the gist of the answer to your question about the using the "quality and sharpness" of the impression to separate plate 2 stamps between early and late states.

As an aside, if you have a stamp that plates to 2 Late -- and you are convinced that it is OB in color -- then you might just have one of the scarce to rare plate 2L orange browns

Happy to discuss further if you like.

Regards // ioagoa
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Edited by ioagoa - 07/03/2020 1:31 pm
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Posted 07/03/2020   1:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add banknoteguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
ioagoa

Very interesting and considered response! I am good [for now]
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