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Show Your US 1851-57 Imperforate Stamps

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Posted 07/13/2020   10:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi stampcrow --

YES -- 73R1 E (or i) -- is correct !!

I should be able to advise regarding my opinion of Early versus Intermediate state some time tomorrow -- (i.e., as I am waiting on confirmation of my opinion from a fellow plater).

Great work!!!

Regards // ioagoa
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Edited by ioagoa - 07/13/2020 10:47 pm
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Posted 07/13/2020   11:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampcrow to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
OK!! so now that I've had some dinner.., very late for various reasons including wanting to plate that darn stamp knowing that you took the time to point out the things I should have been looking at, I can write about what I did wrong on the first go around.

I focused too much on one thing. That was the UL corner.

After reading ioagoa's post I looked more at the spacing caused by the bends in the UFL. Also spacing between upper half of the LFL and the design.
Then taking mootermutt987's advice and comparing compressed lines voila!!
Thanks!!
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Posted 07/14/2020   1:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
#11A position 79L1L with a red straight-line PAID cancel

This has one line recut at the top of the upper left diamond block, but since the line extends to the right, it is identified as:

Variety #28 Top Label & Upper Left Diamond Block Joined at Top.

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Posted 07/14/2020   3:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi stampcrow --

Regarding the state of the plate on your 73R1 as being "early" or "intermediate" -- after consulting with a fellow plater -- and after spending considerable time studying this stamp -- unfortunately I am going to have to decline to opine on whether "E" versus "i". That said, I am 100% confident that your stamp is Scott #10 -- position 73R1. A little "color commentary" on the subject is as follows:

-- As I mentioned yesterday -- when it comes to plate 1, differentiating between the early and intermediate states of the plate can be frustratingly difficult.

-- On your stamp, due primarily to the combination of scan resolution (which is limited by the SCF file size 200 kb maximum) and cancel obstruction (primarily covering much of the BFL) -- it is not possible to determine the state of the plate -- and even with the stamp in hand, making such a determination may not be possible. Thus, at this point in the analysis, anything I say would be an "educated guess" at best.

-- Further complicating the analysis is that the Chase photographic copy of 73R1i is actually a worn plate printing of 73R1E (as per the USPCS website listing of Chase photo errors) -- in other words, the Chase photos contain 2 copies of 73R1E and none of 73R1i. Link to the USPCS web page listing the Chase Plate Reconstruction Photographic Errors is here:

https://www.uspcs.org/?s=chase+photo


-- To add another layer of confusion for anybody trying to figure all of this out, is that the O'Doherty / Lund stamp posted as 73R1E on stampplating.com is actually 73R1i -- in other words -- the O'Doherty / Lund stamps posted up to stampplating.com contain 2 copies of 73R1i and none of 73R1E.

-- Very generally speaking -- the only difference between the Early and Intermediate states of Plate 1 were caused solely by re-entry -- so the only way to differentiate between the two -- short of a DT or a different relief being used -- is to look for the very subtle signs of re-entry -- (for example -- fuzzy and thicker FL's, fatter rosette dots, etc.). That said, the analysis can be extremely challenging due to differences in inking and impression -- most notably for example if one has a worn plate printing from 1E and a very early printing impression from 1i.

I will wrap this up by again saying that I am 100% confident that your stamp is Scott #10 -- position 73R1 -- but decline opinion as to the state of the plate being E or i.

Regards // ioagoa

PS -- if you want to contact me via "private message" through SCF -- and could send a high resolution 1,200 dpi scan of the stamp -- I will take another look and let you know if I see anything that would tip the scales in either direction.
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Edited by ioagoa - 07/14/2020 3:21 pm
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Posted 07/14/2020   3:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
classic coins --

Nice RED straight line PAID on that 79L1L!

I love red cancels on the 1851 3c dull reds -- some of which can be very striking -- thanks for showing this one.

Regards // ioagoa
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Posted 07/14/2020   3:49 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Not saying it will work with this stamp but let's see the back of that 73R1, Stampcrow.

Inadvertently left a word out while I was typing on my phone! Maybe it makes better sense now...
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Edited by sinclair2010 - 07/14/2020 6:45 pm
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Posted 07/14/2020   5:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
ioagoa, Thanks a lot for sharing your plating experience, especially regarding distinguishing between plate 1e and 1i printings. I, and many others here are learning a great deal from your well-written posts.

Thanks, also, for your comment on the red straight-line PAID. I agree, the red cancels on the 3-cent imperforates can be striking. I've found red cancels to be fairly scarce on this issue, so I have a special place for them in my storage box.

Here is a group of six with red cancels.

The OB at top left (7R1e) is a bit on the pale side, and the one at top center is an over-inked variety.

I acquired the three in the second row with the *idge CDSs in a single lot 15 years ago. They apparently were soaked off the same related group of correspondence (before I got them), and kept together all these years.

I think the cover with the badly-torn #10A is my favorite red cancel, from Johnson, Vermont, with six dots on either side of the state abbreviation:




Edit: Corrected a misspelling
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Edited by Classic Coins - 07/14/2020 7:57 pm
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Posted 07/14/2020   7:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampcrow to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Winston, here's a scan of the back. Note that my scanner can only do 600 dpi.

Also iaogoa thanks for your effort to pin down the state of the plate. It doesn't help that I struggle to supply good images.
Please thank your colleague for me.

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Posted 07/14/2020   7:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampcrow to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Since I'm on here's a grotesque red one.

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Posted 07/14/2020   7:45 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Unfortunately, the back scan of the 73R1 does not help as it lacks the distinctive look of SOME Plate 1E stamps. Thanks for adding the image.
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Posted 07/14/2020   8:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Since I'm on here's a grotesque red one.


It's not grotesque. It's eccentric!
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Posted 07/14/2020   9:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi sinclair2010 --

Further your comments regarding the back scan of stampcrow's 73R1 -- and, more specifically, regarding the "distinctive look of SOME plate 1E stamps" -- I wanted to ask if you would share your thoughts on that subject (or confirm my guess as noted below).

I am guessing that you are looking for evidence of part india paper which is seen only from plate 1 Early -- and which would thus nail the state of the plate on that basis (which, by the way, is a great idea and something I did not think of until you requested a back scan).

As I understand it, the "distinctive" look associated with part india paper is generally as follows:

-- the ability under high zoom magnification to possibly see some of the bamboo fibers in the part india paper (again, this is a "maybe" depending on the scan quality and the quantity / color of the fibers).

-- the part india paper itself having a slightly yellowish tinge versus the typical dead white color usually seen (which given scanner settings, monitor differences, etc. could be hard to determine from a computer scan).

In any case, I am asking for my educational purposes and am curious if, in addition to part india paper, there are other distinctive paper characteristics associated with SOME (but not all) stamps from plate 1E that could be used to nail the state of the plate on the basis of the paper?

Regards // ioagoa

edited to fix grammar and a typo
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Edited by ioagoa - 07/14/2020 11:49 pm
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Posted 07/15/2020   12:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
classic coins -- those are some really nice red cancels you showed -- and I agree with you that red cancels on 1851 3 cent imperfs are not as common as one might think.

stampcrow -- all I can say is that is one BOLD red grid cancel!

I do not have many 1851 3 center's with red cancels -- but I have a few. Here are 2 of them.

The first one is 24L1E -- with a striking bright red AUG 25 CLEVELAND O. cds cancel.

The second one is 83R1E with a red small Boston PAID grid. According to the Chase book, the red small Boston PAID grid was in use for only a few weeks from 7/7 to 7/26/1851 -- and is seen in both "bright red" and "purplish red". Since this one is not what I would call "bright red" -- I am presuming it must be the "purplish red" variety?

Regards // ioagoa



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Posted 07/15/2020   10:45 am  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ioagoa, I am limited in my ability to give a lengthy reply but I did not expect to find this example would be on part India paper. What I was looking for would be stamps that look like this.

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Posted 07/15/2020   10:48 am  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Or like one that I show in this thread.
http://goscf.com/t/55585
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