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Show Your US 1851-57 Imperforate Stamps

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Posted 09/26/2020   2:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Moyock13 --

Regarding the stamp you just posted with the manuscript cancel -- I agree that it is an A relief -- and with the lightly recut LFL and the heavier BFL -- is most likely from plate 4.

Regarding the "faint right inner line" that you mentioned -- hard to see in your scan given the resolution associated with the SCF 200 kb limit -- but none of the inner lines on plate 4 were recut by hand -- so if there is a trace of an inner line -- it is one that made it from the original die -- to the transfer roll -- to the plate -- and ultimately to the printed stamp.

Regards // ioagoa
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Posted 09/26/2020   5:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Well said, ioagoa.

This closeup of position 64L8 is another example. The vertical line that extends from the triangle to the diamond block was also on the master die. Each triangle has two vertical lines and two curved lines in addition to the horizontal lines:

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Edited by Classic Coins - 09/26/2020 5:30 pm
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Posted 09/26/2020   5:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Laurie 02 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi guys, so, can you tell Scott number by playing or does it still come down to colour?
Cheers
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Posted 09/26/2020   5:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Laurie, #10 and #10A are stamps identified as having been printed from plate 1e, 1i, 2e, 5e, or 0. All stamps printed from those plates are considered #10 or #10A.

Plating a stamp to a specific position on one of the "orange brown plates" will, of course, confirm the printing plate, but this usually isn't necessary for identifying a #10/10A because of their distinct appearance.

There are some 1851-57 3-cent imperforate stamps printed from the other plates that are orange brown, but they are considered #11 or #11A.
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Edited by Classic Coins - 09/26/2020 5:47 pm
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Posted 09/26/2020   5:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Laurie 02 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks CC,this is my favourite thread!
I have a new acquisition to put up today, I pick 11a I'll find out later I guess!
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Posted 09/26/2020   5:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You're welcome, Laurie. I look forward to seeing your new acquisition.
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Posted 09/26/2020   6:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Laurie 02 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here 'tis!
It actually seems a better impression than I first thought, an early plate stamp?

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Posted 09/26/2020   7:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Nice stamp, Laurie! It does look like an early printing from plate 1L (heavy inking in the upper right corner). The lines in the triangles don't look very worn at all. I'd sure like to see a clearer image, as I'm very fond of early plate 1L printings.
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Posted 09/26/2020   9:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here are two plate 1L stamps from the same sheet position - 5R1L; one early printing showing good detail in the upper-right triangle, and one worn-plate printing showing only traces of ink in the triangle.

The detail in the triangle of the early printing suffers somewhat due to inking issues, with the two curved lines being mottled.

The lack of detail in the triangle of the late printing may be partially due to the impression being under-inked.

The delicate innermost circle of diamonds in the rosettes was one of the first areas of the design to wear, and these details are essentially gone on the late printing.

5R1L has four recut varieties:

Variety #1 Two Inner Lines
Variety #11 One Vertical Line Recut in Upper Left Triangle
Variety #16 One Vertical Line Recut in Lower Left Triangle
Variety #23 Left Inner Line Runs Up Too Far



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Posted 09/26/2020   9:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Laurie 02 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks CC I'll scan it for you later, does that make it 10a or 11 a?
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Posted 09/26/2020   10:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It's an #11A, Laurie.
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Posted 09/27/2020   01:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Classic Coins --

Your side-by-side post of the early versus worn plate printing impression of your 5R1L is really interesting. I love plating the worn plate printings -- as even though they tend to be shabby in comparison to the earlier printing impressions, as the finer engraved lines wore away over time, the deeper lines that were recut by hand stood out more.

As an aside -- assembling an album page of a consistent plate position from plate 1L -- (especially one with a lot of recut varieties showing, like your 5R1L) -- in all of its known colors from the very first printings in October 1851 through the end of the plate's life around March 1855 makes for a really nice showing -- and also highlights the progression of how the plate wore over the years.

You also mentioned in one of your earlier posts today that "you are very fond of early plate 1L printings". Here are two more examples of early impressions from plate 1 Late printings:

-- The first stamp is position 40L1L -- with a FEB 16 CDS cancel -- surely used in February 1852. This example also shows the center line on the plate.

-- The second example is position 60R1L -- with a black manuscript cancel. This position has recut variety #27 -- top label block and upper right diamond block joined at top -- and also shows a partial imprint to boot.

Both of these positions show the right frame line to be fainter versus the right inner line and the other frame lines. Chase commented about this in his book as follows:

..."The faint lines in question were recut either very lightly or not at all (probably the latter in almost every case) when plate 1i became plate 1L"...

Hard to say on these two -- but my guess is that the RFL was not recut at all when plate 1i became plate 1L -- but again -- that is only a guess?

Regards // ioagoa




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Edited by ioagoa - 09/27/2020 01:28 am
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Posted 09/27/2020   11:38 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Your post about studying a plate over time, for whatever reason, reminded me of an interesting point of trivia.

Bill Amonette always had a wide grin, the couple times he recanted to me that he had fully reconstructed plate 1L in experimental OB.
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Posted 09/27/2020   1:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi txstamp --

Bill told me the same thing about his 1L reconstruction all in EOB. I never saw it in the flesh -- but I know a couple of other collectors who did -- and what an amazing accomplishment.

Your post about Bill's 1L EOB reconstruction also reminded me of another bit of related trivia. In Bennett's sale of Dave Watt's 3-cent collection (Bennett Sale #309 // November 10, 2006) there were multiple plate reconstructions -- most being partial reconstructions with varying degrees of completeness -- for each of the "dull red" plates 1L through 8, and with each reconstruction being in a different color known to have been produced by the applicable plate (generally speaking these were Lots #433 to #438, inclusive). None of these lots were photographed in the Bennett catalogue -- but shortly after the sale concluded, I recall seeing some of these plating's turn up in dealer stocks at many of the west coast stamp shows that I would attend, and one dealer in particular had a ton of ex-Watt material that I would buy a few items from every time I saw the dealer at a stamp show. Hard to find reasonably priced bulk material like that in todays world.

Regards // ioagoa
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Posted 09/27/2020   2:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A lot of times, specialized collections - particularly the portions of them put in a large lot don't get the seller writeup/love commensurate to the degree of difficulty in assembling them. Also, frequently, such lots tend to be beyond the budget of many platers.

edit: those are good examples of the weak RFL vs right inner line recut.
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Edited by txstamp - 09/27/2020 2:53 pm
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