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Scott 1895h, Flag Over The Supreme Court, Black Field Of Stars Instead Of Blue

 
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Posted 06/05/2020   9:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Walkman82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

In The 1995 Plate Number Coil Catalog (8th Edition) edited by Richard Nazar, there is a note for plate 9


Quote:
"This error was confirmed by the BEP to be an "error of color," which occurred when black ink was mistakenly loaded into the blue ink fountain. This resulted in the union (field of stars) of the flag being printed in black ink instead of the normal blue. No mint examples have been reported. A used pair from sleeve 9 exists with the plate number on the right stamp. Another used single was found in a mixture, which is tied to a piece by a violet-black United Way slogan cancel. On all reported examples, the field of the flag was lightly printed, which makes the black ink appear gray."


Has anyone else found one (or more) of this error?

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Member APS #174069, PNC3 #2386, AFDCS #29532O, PSS #8418

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Posted 06/05/2020   10:42 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Around 2006, on behalf of an estate, I got a used #9 PS3 certified by the APS.

edited to ad plate #
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Edited by eyeonwall - 06/05/2020 10:49 pm
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Posted 06/06/2020   4:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Walkman82 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
eyeonwall,

I found the PS3 you referenced using the APS certificate archive. I also noted that the only two submissions were rejected, one as being "chemically washed" and the other for being "colors chemically altered." Both submissions appear (to me) to be legitimate 1895h stamps.

The opinions make me question how APS came to the conclusion that they were chemically treated when the "black field of stars" error stamps clearly exist. It's a shame that they can't add something like "we used a dual-column gas chromatograph, Hewlett-Packard model 5710A with flame analyzing detectors" (borrowed from "My Cousin Vinny").


Scott
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Member APS #174069, PNC3 #2386, AFDCS #29532O, PSS #8418

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Posted 06/06/2020   4:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
They probably used a UV light and the VSC6000. That would work.
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Posted 06/06/2020   4:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Walkman82 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Is it just me? Would it be asking too much for them to document the methods or approaches used while authenticating stamps? I have to hypothesize that I'm correct when I submit a stamp for a certificate. I'd like to know that the expertizer on the other end isn't doing the same. Just my 2.
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Member APS #174069, PNC3 #2386, AFDCS #29532O, PSS #8418

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Posted 06/06/2020   11:08 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
" I also noted that the only two submissions were rejected, one as being "chemically washed" and the other for being "colors chemically altered." "

I'm not completely sure what you are saying with your choice of words, specifically "the only two submissions" part. Do you really just mean there were two submissions rejected and not that they were the only two submissions?

"The opinions make me question how APS came to the conclusion that they were chemically treated when the "black field of stars" error stamps clearly exist."

Just because real ones exist does not mean they can't also be faked.
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Posted 06/07/2020   12:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Walkman82 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
eyeonwall,

Apologies for the typo, what I meant to say was "the only other two submissions" that appeared to be the 1895h variety. In sum, there were 3 submissions to APS found in my search.

You are correct that as real ones exist there can also be fakes. I want to know why they think they are fakes. Were there red flags? Was a certain test they ran that provided conclusive evidence? Or did the expert take 5 minutes to verify it was an authentic stamp (paper, perforations, design, ink color, tagging) and instantly decide what it was or wasn't? My fear is that there may be a tendency by people (and experts) to make assumptions on how a stamp became discolored or colored differently. It happens here (and in other places) often enough to raise that question.

It's easy for someone to say that a stamp is a changeling or was chemically altered, but how did the person arrived at that conclusion? I have come to believe that we should receive more information in the expertization process than we currently receive as to how the opinion was developed. If they added it as an additional service, I'd pay for it. Without that valuable information, how are we to know the difference or what to look for in the future when buying or selling stamps? If philatelic scholarship cannot be shared by the experts, where does that leave the general stamp collecting population?

Enquiring minds want to know.
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Member APS #174069, PNC3 #2386, AFDCS #29532O, PSS #8418

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Posted 06/08/2020   12:53 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Have you shared this desire with the APS?
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Posted 06/09/2020   7:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Walkman82 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
eyeonwall,

I have not, but you make an excellent point. My fear is that if I'm the only one asking for more that it will fall on deaf ears. Either way, you are correct and I will share my desire with a few different certifying entities.

Thanks,

Scott
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Member APS #174069, PNC3 #2386, AFDCS #29532O, PSS #8418

Plate Number Coil Collectors Club (www.PNC3.org)

Coil Line (club newsletter) Editor & Webmaster

Visit my website @ www.scottsstampcollection.com
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Posted 06/09/2020   8:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If it was your submission and you asked, they would likely tell you exactly how it was done. For others I don't know. But looking at an example in ordinary light proves nothing about an item like this. That's why the UV is so important.
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Posted 06/09/2020   8:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Walkman82 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
revcollector,

Would UV be able to detect any sort of chemical alteration? Are there other tests available? Genuine question, I don't know what processes are used to determine when a stamp has been bleached or bathed in sunlight or had chemicals applied.

Scott
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Member APS #174069, PNC3 #2386, AFDCS #29532O, PSS #8418

Plate Number Coil Collectors Club (www.PNC3.org)

Coil Line (club newsletter) Editor & Webmaster

Visit my website @ www.scottsstampcollection.com
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Posted 08/07/2020   1:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Mr. H to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I came cross this the other day and would like some opinions on whether or not to send it out for certification.


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Posted 08/07/2020   6:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Walkman82 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like it's a possible candidate...the pic is a little fuzzy. I'd send it in for a certificate. I'm 4 for 4 on certs for 1895h so far...I hope you get good news!

Scott
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Member APS #174069, PNC3 #2386, AFDCS #29532O, PSS #8418

Plate Number Coil Collectors Club (www.PNC3.org)

Coil Line (club newsletter) Editor & Webmaster

Visit my website @ www.scottsstampcollection.com
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Posted 08/11/2020   3:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Mr. H to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think I'll send it in.
Also, there's a space on the form for "The following information is desired" and as per Walkman82's comments above I will ask that they advise as to what methods or processes were used to base their conclusion on.
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