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Posted 06/20/2020   09:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The Cloud is not physical gear?
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Forum Dad
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Posted 06/20/2020   09:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Yet another reason why this site needs to be in the cloud and not run on physical gear. These issues are already solved if you use Amazon ALB with Amazon ACM in front of your web servers. Cheap and 0 maintenance.


Will you just shut up about the cloud already, I'm REALLY freakin' tired of hearing about it. When you're ready to pay for it, AND move it, MAYBE I'll listen.
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Posted 06/20/2020   10:13 am  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think that some people here understand what "moving to the cloud" actually means. Moving things "to the cloud" isn't a magical solution that eliminates all of the support requirements associated with running a website.

Unless you are completely redesigning the site technology and architecture in conjunction with the move, all "moving to the cloud" does is move the site from a physical computer box in a datacenter to virtual server space. Yes, it theoretically provides more options with respect to redundancy and resources, but it doesn't get rid of everything.

Regardless of whether the site is running on a physical server or on a VPS or other virtual machine space, the web serving infrastructure (operating system, Apache, etc.) still needs to be administered and updated.

Also, having done this with several sites, depending on what functionality is being utilized and how much customization has been done, such a migration is NOT trivial. Same with redesigns for responsiveness. It can be a monumental undertaking.

I originally developed my main (nonphilatelic) website, which is primarily dynamic functionality, in perl back in 2000 and the markup has remained substantially unchanged, even in light of the development of mobile devices and later responsive design, just because of the number of man hours it would take to update... too overwhelming.

It's only been in the last month, with eBay announcing it was retiring its affiliate RSS feeds (out of the blue with only 2 weeks notice to the affiliate program that the functionality is going away) that I've been forced to address this, as all of my affiliate tools that I've been using are going away and the remaining tools are subpar and also don't fit my site design... so I've been spending literally every waking hour outside my day job (and taking some vacation days to work on this) to get the site design changed by the deadline... I'm using this as an opportunity to implement as much responsive design as I can, since I have to overhaul large swaths of HTML and CSS anyway.

It's not easy, especially when you're working on your own and don't have a team of people working with you, so I fully understand Bobby's reaction to arbitrary, dictatorial demands on the part of nonpaying users.
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Posted 06/20/2020   12:27 pm  Show Profile Check clivel's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add clivel to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Folks should keep in mind that the entire 'certificate' or 'https' (secure sockets) thing is largely insignificant. It is meant to give confidence to technically challenged people
..
The certificate effort was mostly driven by a few large tech companies who are now largely in control.
Don

Spot on Don,
That being said I have recently changed all my sites over to https, it was a pain to do and in some cases not the trivially simple exercise I assumed that it would be. And now I am also stuck with the annual cost of certificate renewals.

And for what, there was no technical requirement, I did it only to ease the viewing public and more importantly to pander to Google who apparently give https sites a higher search ranking.
Clive


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Posted 06/20/2020   12:40 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
That being said I have recently changed all my sites over to https, it was a pain to do and in some cases not the trivially simple exercise I assumed that it would be. And now I am also stuck with the annual cost of certificate renewals.


The industry landscape for SSL certs has changed DRAMATICALLY in the last several years.

Unless you are running a specialized application where the level of encryption or the reputation of the SSL cert is critical, there is no reason to be paying for SSL certs anymore. Free SSL certs from LetsEncrypt have become an industry standard, and there are plugin modules into the hosting control panel software that automate SSL cert renewals. It literally is now "set it and forget it".

If your host is still charging you per domain for SSL certs, you are being taken advantage of.

I have SSL certs on 18 different domains that auto-renew every 3 months, and the 18 certs cost me nothing. My hosting support set it all up at no charge for all their clients. There is no longer any cost to hosting companies for these SSL certs either, so any reputable hosting company will now offer SSL certs at no charge. If your host isn't doing this, it should give you pause. At the very least, you should inquire about it.
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Posted 06/20/2020   1:07 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Dan,
Does LetsEncrypt have free SSL certificates with OV and EV validation?
Don
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Forum Dad
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Posted 06/20/2020   1:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Only DV and that's what we're using here now.
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Posted 06/20/2020   3:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Hal to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As Shakespeare said, "Much Ado About Nothing"...back to my covers....
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Posted 06/20/2020   7:38 pm  Show Profile Check clivel's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add clivel to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The industry landscape for SSL certs has changed DRAMATICALLY in the last several years.

Unless you are running a specialized application where the level of encryption or the reputation of the SSL cert is critical, there is no reason to be paying for SSL certs anymore. Free SSL certs from LetsEncrypt have become an industry standard, and there are plugin modules into the hosting control panel software that automate SSL cert renewals. It literally is now "set it and forget it".

If your host is still charging you per domain for SSL certs, you are being taken advantage of.

I have SSL certs on 18 different domains that auto-renew every 3 months, and the 18 certs cost me nothing. My hosting support set it all up at no charge for all their clients. There is no longer any cost to hosting companies for these SSL certs either, so any reputable hosting company will now offer SSL certs at no charge. If your host isn't doing this, it should give you pause. At the very least, you should inquire about it.

Thank you revenuecollector,
I was not aware of Let'sEncrypt or free SSL certificates.

Unfortunately, my hosting company Ionos (formerly 1 and 1), have no interest in allowing their clients to use a free certificate when they can charge $70 per site instead. I haven't been happy with their service for years, but have put off moving due to the enormous amount of effort it will require to move 9 domains, email accounts, databases, php scripts etc. Perhaps the saving in SSL certificates will give me the impetus I need.
Any recommendations for an alternate host would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Clive
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Posted 06/20/2020   8:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add PostmasterGS to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Clive,

I run all my sites through an account with HostingMatters. They have very good, quick support when I have issues, and it's only $11/month for an unmetered plan. And the LetsEncrypt certs are free.
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Presenting the GermanStamps.net Collection - Germany, Colonies, & Occupied Territories, 1872-1945
Edited by PostmasterGS - 06/20/2020 8:08 pm
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Posted 06/20/2020   8:17 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Clive, email sent.
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Posted 06/20/2020   9:01 pm  Show Profile Check clivel's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add clivel to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
PostmasterGS and revenuecollector,
Thank you for the recommendations.
I will check both hosts out.
Thanks,
Clive

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Posted 06/20/2020   9:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Stratus Nimbus
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Posted 06/20/2020   11:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rismoney to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The Cloud is not physical gear?


Not usually. As a cloud customer, you usually rent either services or virtual machines that run on the physical hardware which you don't manage. So you don't manage the infrastructure below their hypervisor. On the infrastructure as a service level, you only manage the OS and the apps.

When it comes to high availability in the cloud, you can use their services, like Application Load Balancing to build fault tolerance around virtual machines. So you can build 2 web servers for example, say on a Windows Server OS, and the load balancer can health check these servers and reroute your requests with low monthly costs. The load balancers can host the certificates in question, and can autoupdate themselves, similar to the free LetsEncrypt solution - which I highly recommend for public webservers in general.


Quote:
all "moving to the cloud" does is move the site from a physical computer box in a datacenter to virtual server space. Yes, it theoretically provides more options with respect to redundancy and resources, but it doesn't get rid of everything.


Most importantly it provides future on ramps to shift your focus on what matters (running a stamp forum) versus technical details. An example is migrating your database servers into a database service. In that case, you don't need database servers, installing redundant SQL servers, etc. It's just there and you point to it. You can still optimize it and tune it, but you don't need to patch the OS's, backups are easy etc.



Quote:

Will you just shut up about the cloud already, I'm REALLY freakin' tired of hearing about it. When you're ready to pay for it, AND move it, MAYBE I'll listen.


I might be interested in funding it and doing the work. I think this site is great, but it needs to be appropriate sized and scaled to handle growth and maintenance needs with minimal cost and admin overhead budgets.

I try to help. I have managed IT infrastructures from small companies to extremely large Wall Street firms. I wouldn't recommend something if I didn't think there was real value. If you aren't interested I will go away.

Also, for the record, I have contributed to the site monetarily.








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Posted 06/21/2020   04:44 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The cloud is ALWAYS physical gear. The cloud is simply outsourcing the physical gear and it is inane to think that it cannot have the exact same hardware issues as owning the infrastructure yourself. Just because updates, security, mechanical failures etc. are someone's else's problem to deal with does not make them less likely to occur or have less of an impact. There is absolutely nothing in a 'cloud' configuration that cannot also be done on your own including having disparate geographic redundancy.

The primary justification for a cloud solution is that the disparate geographic redundancy is more financially attainable because you are sharing it with many other people. But since rismoney keeps promoting the 'cloud' every time any issue arises here, the implication appears to be that cloud cannot have the same logistical or infrastructure problems.

Ultimately this is all about money. For a donation based venue like the SCF the costs have to be carefully considered; many of the cloud costs can be buried in things like recovery services. In other words, significant and unexpected costs can bite you in the ass especially if you do not have a reliable, steady income. Before signing a cloud hosting contract you need to make sure you fully understand the data egress terms and conditions. What does it cost to get all your data back in a usable format? What are the costs for terminating the contract early? And let's face the facts; this site is not a huge data transaction processing center where 24/7 uptime is mission critical. The overwhelming majority of users do not financially support the forum nor do the majority want to pay for it. Not being able to count on a steady income each quarter makes it more difficult to commit to a longer term financially attractive cloud hosting contract.

Another consideration, at least for a person like me who likes to 'roll his own', is that you lose control over the infrastructure. You can easily end up on the phone talking to someone who's first language is not the same as your own when you need support. And of course you have to not mind sending your money out of state or out of country instead of investing it locally. Putting people to work and having your livelihood being dependent upon a distant foreign land is not an attractive solution for many people. I do not want to speak for Bobby but if SCF were mine I would not want to abdicate control over my livelihood to others including companies like Google who already control access to over 75% of the world's online information.
Don
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