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Scott 337 - Roller Cancel Or Precancel..?

 
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Posted 06/30/2020   5:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add wert to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Here is a block of Queen Scott 337 with what is likely a precancel, or maybe a regular roller cancel
Any ideas..??

Robert

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Posted 06/30/2020   5:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Wert,
Think about it a little bit. What are the typical characteristics of a precancel in terms of size, dimension, length of wording, etc.? Does this have any of those characteristics?
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Posted 06/30/2020   7:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Lars714 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a roller cancel to me. Didn't really think too much about it, though...
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Posted 06/30/2020   7:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Well John

I am asking because I am not sure if it is a "Kapuskasing Ontario" roller cancel {or roller precancel}...It is similar to the known "Fort Smith" roller precancel below.

Robert

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Edited by wert - 06/30/2020 7:13 pm
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Posted 06/30/2020   8:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What is the original "intent" of the device. Many rollers and handstamps get used provisionally as precancels.
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Posted 06/30/2020   10:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Many rollers and handstamps get used provisionally as precancels.


My conclusion John...50-60+ years ago, maybe when the town of Kapuskasing city say asked for 1000 precanceled stamps {10 sheets} to use for city use only...They may have picked up any roller tool to just get these precanceled sheets to an Government town usage.

I mean who knows..Right...No big deal, or maybe a big deal if only 1000 stamps had this irregular precancel strike...I have never seen this before and searching stamp precancel websites and Google, did not see any information on maybe this roller tool precancel job.

Jest saying.

Robert

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Posted 07/01/2020   01:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add j2186 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Robert,

While there are examples of precancels using a roller cancel, it was definitely against Post Office regulations to do so.

Jan
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Posted 07/01/2020   2:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add UnitradeEditor to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I was speaking to a Canadian postage due expert regarding the image of the large block of 1c stamps with a so-called 'precancel' cancellation. Here is his comment:

"Large chunks (blocks) of postage dues, with full original gum, which are not affixed to anything are bulk payment receipts. These are commonly seen on the 10c postage due stamps. Canadian postage dues have never been precancelled."

Robin Harris
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Posted 07/01/2020   3:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Was getting my information from BNAPS PDF's...I am no precancel expert...




Quote:
PRECANCELED 1 CANADA J1 POSTAGE DUE
George P. Dresser(Editor's Note: The stamps shown here are from George's collection. The comments are from an opinion solicited by George from Kevin O'Reilly, a well-known specialist in the postal history of the Northwest Territories.) From Kevin O'Reilly:"Certainly looks to me as though it is the first Fort Smith (NWT) roller cancel. The date appears to be February 8, 1928 or 1929. The device was proofed on March 10, 1926 so either date would work, but I suspect it is probably 1929 when the flights down the Mackenzie Valley had begun. These stamps probably paid postage due o parcel or bulk incoming mail, I just got an entire sheet of these stamps cancelled January 28, 1929 on eBay."



So here's my take on the subject. At a postmaster's discretion, any sort of stamp can be precanceled using any sort of postal marking. (See the two examples that follow.) A precancel is a postal marking of a certain type, new defunct. All precancel postal markings are precanceled, but not all precanceled stamps are precancels.


Robert

http://www.bnaps.org/hhl/newsletter...8-w004rx.pdf
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Edited by wert - 07/01/2020 3:50 pm
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Posted 07/01/2020   4:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add j2186 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Robert

From the Canada Postal Guide (1955):

"450 Pre-cancelled Stamps

...

The only authorized pre-cancelled stamps are those cancelled with an official die, and such stamps are to be sold only to large mailers.

...

Any postmaster who pre-cancels stamps in any way, or sells pre-cancelled stamps without authority, will be held responsible for the full value of such cancelled stamps, and may also be subjected to the payment of a substantial fine."

The way I read this, postmasters cannot precancel stamps themselves. The block of postage dues shown must be a receipt for bulk payment of postage. This could happen with business reply mail, where the receiving company has to pay the postage. Rather than putting a postage due stamp on each item, the postmaster just totals the amount due and cancels enough stamps to equal the total.

Jan
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Posted 07/01/2020   5:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Additionally, the Fort Smith roller cancel is dated - clearly not a feature of a typical precancel, but of paying a bulk due amount on the day of its payment.
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