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Question About This Franklin Bank Note

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Posted 07/04/2020   03:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add hac5x3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
No experience, so my questions may seen obtuse. I saw this stamp for sale as a Scott 182. However, the post mark is dated January 1, 1873. Which eliminates 182 as that I believe was 1879. It's also not a 156, because the earliest known use of that stamp was August of 1873. But it also looks like it has a secret mark, so I am a little confused.

I am also curious about the blue cancel - I can't seem to find it.

Thanks.

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Posted 07/04/2020   10:46 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dudley to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This isn't my area of expertise, but that date marking doesn't look like anything I've ever seen on a large bank note stamp. I wouldn't assume it is contemporaneous.
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Posted 07/04/2020   1:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jr. Ratfish to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I saw that auction. It was from a trusted seller from which I frequently buy. I thought that it looked like a fake cancel, so I passed on it. Is it authentic?
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Posted 07/04/2020   2:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like an attempted revenue use - thus a revenue cancel and not a postal cancel.
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Posted 07/04/2020   2:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jr. Ratfish to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, it does look like a revenue cancel. If the date is true, it must be a 145. I can not tell from the picture if there is a secret mark or not. Now I wish I had bid on it. If I remember correctly, it did not sell for much.
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Posted 07/04/2020   3:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hac5x3 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It sold for $24.50. I thought it might be a fake cancel also. Wasn't aware that it could have been a revenue cancel(?). But I didn't want to get into a bidding war over a stamp I couldn't identify so I topped off at $20.
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Posted 07/04/2020   4:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rhett to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Not in an area of my expertise but it looks like an 1878 cancel to me; thus a 156 if it has a secret mark?
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Posted 07/04/2020   5:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Might be "DETROIT" at the bottom of the dated cancel. With 2 cancels it is hard to read. It might be a circular rate postal use to mail an insurance document, a not infrequent form of mail at the time.
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Posted 07/04/2020   5:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There appear to be two arced lines of company or business names at the top.
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Posted 07/04/2020   5:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Without being able to read exactly who they were, there is no way to be sure that it was a revenue use and not used like a precancel on some kind of circular rate item. I have seen uses of that type over the years. Not very often, but they do exist. An insurance company is one example that I have seen.
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Posted 07/04/2020   5:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
One of the problems with it being a revenue use is that there was no one cent tax rate at the time, and the position of the cancel would seem to indicate a solo use.
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Posted 07/04/2020   5:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
By 1873 the only documentary tax still in effect was the two cent tax on checks.
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Posted 07/04/2020   6:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A private company would have no reason or authority to cancel postage stamps on their mail.
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Posted 07/04/2020   6:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yet I have seen one cent bank notes used to mail insurance certificates with cancels of the company AND a postal cancel, just as this one well might have. Granted, most of the time the company cancel was near but not on the stamp, but not always.
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Edited by revcollector - 07/04/2020 6:41 pm
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Posted 07/04/2020   6:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just because someone did it, does not mean they had the authority to to so. The overall point still being, it looks like a private corporate cancel, and not a postal cancel.
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Posted 07/04/2020   6:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Chevelle to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
We need Eric Jackson to weigh in on this.

Dave
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