Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

Scott 1700 – Possible New Tagging Error

 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 13 / Views: 462Next Topic  
Pillar Of The Community
7160 Posts
Posted 08/03/2020   5:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add wert to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

Started going through my used stamps stored in boxes.
Went to Unitrade's On-Line Tagging Catalogue website.


WEBSITE: https://adminware.ca/tagging/index.php

Looked up Scott 1700 and saw G4gB,RC,TC error that showed "Traffic lights" on the right side....The cover I have here is the QE Fruit & Flag (1989-98) Die cutting shifted...Below is the cover.


Below shows the tagging error of this stamp...


Here is the chart Robin Harris has showing different tagging errors with these stamps...Great site.



I believe this tagging error is a G4gB,R,C
any opinions...???
Robert
Send note to Staff

Pillar Of The Community
United States
2486 Posts
Posted 08/03/2020   7:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add littleriverphil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
G4gB,R,C ends on the right side, the tagging on cover extends to the right, more like G4gB,C,C
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by littleriverphil - 08/03/2020 7:03 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
6928 Posts
Posted 08/03/2020   7:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Robert, I do not see a tagging error. Just a die cutting error

Peter





Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
7160 Posts
Posted 08/03/2020   8:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ok..I am wrong

Robert

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by wert - 08/03/2020 8:35 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
990 Posts
Posted 08/03/2020   10:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add No1philatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
When I read the heading "Ottawa general tag, G4g " and see the description is as stated- "the error classification occurs only if the stamps are oversized due to shifted die cutting." I have to agree with Robert that it is an Ottawa general four sided tag stamp, with a die miscut exposing a small part of the stamp above, to the right above and to the right side. And the tagging is more along the b,rc,tc - bottom, right center, top center, as Robin illustrates at his site, excepting the fact that the centre and bottom tagging continues to the right, of the next stamp.

Nice find of a real bad diecut Robert, and with parts of 3 others as a bonus and showing an odball tagging effect, even though I would not call it a true tagging error. It really is a die miscut.

A postmark tying it to the cover is the only thing that would have made this cover better. Put it in your cover collection as you don't find this everyday and enjoy.

Edit: Robert, your error was the fact that you stated the proper tagging designation, as I mention, but then you selected the wrong image.

Mike
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by No1philatelist - 08/03/2020 10:37 pm
Valued Member
65 Posts
Posted 08/04/2020   08:48 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add UnitradeEditor to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Robert: you are giving credit where it is not due.

To set the record straight:

1. this is NOT "Unitrade's" On-Line tagging Catalogue website.

Unitrade Associates (i.e. Unitrade stamp catalogue) has nothing at all to do with this database.

2. Re: "Here is the chart Robin Harris has showing different tagging errors with these stamps".

This is NOT my (Robin Harris) chart. The tagging chart of tagging errors was initially started by Ken Rose back in the 1960s and subsequently expanded upon (I believe) with consultation by John Jamieson at Saskatoon Stamp Centre.

--
The Canada tagging database is hosted by my website. I do not maintain the data. For those who have not read the second paragraph on the database site, it reads:

This information was gathered by John Jamieson of Saskatoon Stamp Centre and Mirko Zatka, both avid collectors of tagging errors. Tagging errors were first studied and reported by Ken Rose (Calgary), then by George Dunsay (Massachusetts), followed by Del Peters (Saskatoon).


So … I have had no involvement with the development of the tag types or the actual listings in the database. I simply host the database on my website.

Robin Harris
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
1277 Posts
Posted 08/04/2020   11:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BlackJag to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I had 10 mis-cut booklets where the horizontal cut was correct, but all of the vertical cuts were wrongly placed causing the tagging shifts on each stamp. The cuts are indicated by the orange lines.
This one I kept for my collection.

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
652 Posts
Posted 08/04/2020   12:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add watermark to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I guess I am missing something here. The images I see in this thread appear to have all the printing including the tagging propery done. The problem apparently occured when the cutting was applied to the booklets. This to me is a miscut with all printing properly done. Why are you calling it a tagging error when it is a miscutting of the booklets?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
990 Posts
Posted 08/04/2020   4:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add No1philatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What I am going to say next may be controversial, and offend some dealers or others, but thats ok as it is my opinion. I am not taking sides, and you can make a descision on your own, as some may not agree. But thats ok, bacause we all get to voice our opinions whether right or wrong, learn and become educated, in a generally courtious manner, using this forum.

Watermark, you are correct in saying it is a miscut as I and others have said.

In my opinion, as far as a tagging error, it really is not. It is a miscut error! But in Roberts defense, one can be misled by the use of the language "Canadian error classification" under which all is contained in the "Online tagging database" which is hosted on Robin Harris's website. It is easy to understand why Robert made the statement about a "tagging error", so I ask: Was it his error, or is there a problem with the Canadian error classification under which this item is listed?

And look at the 3rd. paragraph, taken from the introduction page as shown below.

In particular it became apparent that when 4-sided tagging was introduced and die cutting replacing traditional perforations, it created a whole new set of tagging errors that had never appeared when the stamps were only perforated and tagging only ran down the edges of each stamp or down the middle. In particular the 47c Flag over Inukshuk stamps booklet BK236 (Scott 1707a), was the main culprit in creating these new types of tagging errors. In discussions with John Jamieson he mentioned that when the 1995 Canadian Tagged Errors and Tagged Perfins catalogue was edited, most of the attention had been focused on tagging bar "shifts" and "missing tagging bars". In subsequent analysis it was determined that perforation shifts and die cutting shifts also created tagging errors and this expanded the numbers greatly of the various types of tagging errors. When the tagging bars were only on the vertical sides, then shifts only went to the right or left. die cutting shifts, which sometimes resulted in oversize stamps added 10 more possibilities. These are illustrated as types G4B, G4F and G4G."

As Robin has stated, the database is not his, and has done the courtesy of hosting it for information purposes for anyone. Which I admit is great for all collectors that search out mistags and other oddities on Canadian stamps, amongst other great information he has posted on his webpages. Kudos.

And for clarity of information or terminology used, I believe the people who are involved in updating, revising, and editing the information shown and stated may need to reclassify or adjust the headings under which some of the items fall. Or in all, do away with tagging error classification on shifts unless the tagging actually shift on the main part of the stamp itself. After all, in this example in particular, the tagging is in the correct position of where it is supposed to be, its just that the stamps were miscut by the die cutter.

Blackjag, nice miscut example of that booklet!

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
7160 Posts
Posted 08/04/2020   8:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
So would this Scott 1374 be a G3aR..??...Or normal...??




Robert
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
990 Posts
Posted 08/04/2020   9:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add No1philatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
No Robert, the image of the used 1374 would be a normal G3.

Mike



Edit:Don't be fooled by the wide bars shown in the image for a G3. We all know that the tagbar running thru the edges of two perforated stamps is pretty well double of the thickness of the outside edge tagging as it will be split upon seperation.

And the tag descriptions for the image showing the G3aR and G3aC is confusing. The misperforation of the stamps causes it to show only 2 bars which appear to be on the right of the stamp. Hence the G3aR. Then you get the same thing on the last two right hand stamps in the pane, but as we know from the pane illustrated the stamp is still a type G3a. If not a full R maybe a small r as it shows a full wide and the 1/2 width right tag bar.
Mike
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by No1philatelist - 08/04/2020 10:37 pm
Pillar Of The Community
7160 Posts
Posted 08/04/2020   10:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Well..Here is a nice tagging shift on my Scott 590 sheet.

Robert




Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by wert - 08/04/2020 10:18 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
990 Posts
Posted 08/04/2020   10:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add No1philatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
No, sorry Robert, but that sheet of 590 is a perforation shift my friend, giving the appearance of a tagging error. Note that the image is still centered between the tagging bars, and how close the perfs are to the left side of Canada while far away from 5 at right.

Mike
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by No1philatelist - 08/04/2020 10:44 pm
Pillar Of The Community
7160 Posts
Posted 08/05/2020   10:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
One last question..Here are 2 stamps.The top one is a Scott 1342 which has tagging with bars not closed like the bottom one..Is this normal..??

Robert

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by wert - 08/05/2020 10:32 am
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
990 Posts
Posted 08/05/2020   9:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add No1philatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes Robert, that is normal tagging on both of those issues as noted in Unitrade specialized catalogue shown on page 24 of the 2019 edition under General Tagging. The illustrations show all the different styles. Don't have a 20 catalogue as I usually only purchase one every second year.

The ones you show here are Style 4 and Style 5.
It shows the first one, #1342 as Style 4 with 4bar +(GTX).
The second one, #1536 is a style 5 with 4bar + (GTX) .

In the definition table it explains GTX as" Special Tagging for the "Greet-More" Christmas stamps (1987-1991) appears along all sides of the illustration plus four vertical bars to the left of the illustration. During the years 1992-1995 there is tagging on all white areas except within the illustration."

And it does not show up in a search of the tagging database hosted on Robins web site as it states that the list contains all tagging errors known. Since there are no known errors the #'s will not bring up or show an image.

Mike
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by No1philatelist - 08/06/2020 12:58 pm
  Previous TopicReplies: 13 / Views: 462Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2020 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2020 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.23 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05