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Crete: 1905 Revolutionary Govt Lithographs.

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Pillar Of The Community
Israel
790 Posts
Posted 02/01/2017   03:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rob Roy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello
Where were these stamps issued? stampworld and kolnekt don't list them under Greece, and of course not under Crete. In fact the don't list any stamps on 1905.
I'll wellcome any info.
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Valued Member
United States
259 Posts
Posted 02/01/2017   05:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tvorog to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
These relatively common stamps are usually not forgeries, though forged stamps exist (and genuine stamps with forged postmarks extist).

They are from the 1905 lithographic provisional issue by Therisson rebels on Crete, and were used on delivered mail before Greek independence was internationally recognized. The shown 1 drachma stamp is valued 4 in Hellas specialized Greek catalog.

Scott doesn't list these stamps, because Scott catalog editors chose to ignore stamps that weren't issued "officially" whatever this means; definition of "official" issues, as opposed to "unofficial," "provisonal," etc., is a subject of debate. Also, Scott is inconsistent: it lists some provisional isses, and doesn't list others.

It is a complex matter. For example, should the stamps of the island of Ikaria that proclaimed itself as a first inrependent Greek republic in 1912, considered to be "official" or not? What do I care if I like those stamps, and if they were (sometimes) used on delivered mail? Same goes for Samos, many other islands, Thrace, and many towns and regions of Western Anatolia occupied by the Greek forces.

Michel and Greek catalogs do list any stamps that were actually used on delivered mail, no matter who issued them. During the Greek war of independence there were multiple provisional issues in many different regions. In my opinion, this approach to the listing of stamps is much more reasonable, especially taking into account that provisional stamps are actively collected, and, bearing genuine postmarks, are often valuable.
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Edited by tvorog - 02/01/2017 05:48 am
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
743 Posts
Posted 02/01/2017   05:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Johan Buvelot to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The 1905 Venizelos government was in a place called Therison. I believe the stamps were issued more as an political statement. They can be found in the Michel catalogue under Kreta at the end of the Kreta section. mentioned are: series 1-5 and series 6-11 and 3 non issued stamps. kind regards, johan.
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Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
3146 Posts
Posted 02/01/2017   07:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
These "Revolutionary Assembly" stamps were issued by a rebel group in Crete who wanted union with Greece and were dissatisfied with their government and the actions of the High Commissioner, Prince George of Greece.

As Johan has said the rebels set themselves up in Therison (now usually "Theriso") as an alternative assembly to the official one in Chania.

Theriso is a village in the mountains south of Chania and the rebels were based there and a few other small villages nearby for about eight months in 1905.

I doubt if the stamps were used for much real post but covers exist sent between the villages. There are are a lot of CTO stamps or stamps with forged cancellations.

The stamps must have been much more important as powerful propaganda showing "Crete enslaved" and "King George of Greece.

At this time Crete was nominally still Ottoman territory but in practice the Turkish government had already lost all control of the island.

Only one small Turkish garrison was permitted to remain on the small island of Souda and they flew the Turkish flag there.

The Cretan state had significant autonomy under the protection of Britain, France, Italy and Russia.

While there appears to have been considerable support in principle for union with Greece but there was still a lot of caution in case this led to another war with Turkey.

The rebels didn't gain any power directly but they had a huge influence on Cretan politics.

They achieved acceptance by the Cretan assembly and protecting powers of many of their proposals.

This led to the replacement in 1906 of Prince George of Greece as High Commissioner of Crete by the Greek politician, Alexander Zaimis. They both appear on Crete stamps.

The rebels' leader, Eleftherios Venizelos, a former minister in the Cretan government, went on to become prime minister of Crete and then of Greece.

Many Cretan stamps were overprinted in 1908 with "ELLAS" ("Greece" to reflect the renewed claim of union with Greece. However, Greece was still not ready for this and the union didn't take place until December 1913.

The stamps are listed in Stanley Gibbons, Michel and the Greek catalogues such as Hellas and Vlastos.
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Nigel
Pillar Of The Community
Israel
790 Posts
Posted 02/01/2017   07:36 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rob Roy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you all for the thorough discussion. Who needs history books when we have these small bits of paper.
From a few google links it apears that the stamps were used just for propaganda and not actual mail, which supports the mentioned idea that canceled stamps were forgeries.
Thanks again for the info.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
5933 Posts
Posted 02/01/2017   08:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
From my collection .





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Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
3146 Posts
Posted 02/01/2017   09:22 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi RobRoy,

Cancelled genuine stamps do exist, some with genuine cancellations and others with fake cancellations. I guess most of the genuine cancellations are CTO.

Some of the fake cancellations are even misspelt or have used foreign postmarks!
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Nigel
Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
3146 Posts
Posted 02/01/2017   09:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi floortrader,

Some of your assignments look wrong to me. Some of these are clearly wrong from the scan but I'd much prefer to see much higher resolution scans to be sure of some of the others.
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Nigel
Pillar Of The Community
United States
5933 Posts
Posted 02/01/2017   12:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You can see the shade difference in the paper when all types are in the same scan .

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Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
3146 Posts
Posted 02/01/2017   1:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Every element of the stamp helps in making a determination but I would suggest you focus on the details of the design and printing quality as well just the stamp and paper colours.

The third stamp here is clearly a fake because the design is wrong (inner frame at top right, shadow at the right of the king etc), the perforation is too crude, and yes, the colours of the paper and stamps.

The second one is clearly a reprint. The details of the design appear OK but it is not so finely printed as the originals, in particular the diagonal grid pattern is not clean. The stamp is overinked and the registration is poor.

I'm not sure whether the first one is an original or one of the better reprints. I would expect an original to have even cleaner printing. However, it may well be an original.

I find it easier to distinguish originals and reprints of the Crete Enslaved stamps.
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Nigel
Bedrock Of The Community
Learn More...
Australia
35534 Posts
Posted 02/01/2017   1:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Enjoyed the discussion.
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Valued Member
Switzerland
251 Posts
Posted 02/01/2017   4:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add codexluminati to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Glad I saw this post, it comes at the right moment.
In the King George, I guess the 2 on the top are originals or reprints and the 2 on the bottom are forgeries ?
On the Crete enslaved d'ont know if they are originals or reprints with favor cancel?



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Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
3146 Posts
Posted 02/01/2017   4:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello again codexluminati!

The four Greece Enslaved stamps are all reprints.

I'm not sure about the King George stamps. I think they are all reprints with varied printing quality.

The standard test for the King George forgeries is that the inside border at the top right is a single line when it should be double.

However, what I usually notice first is the form of the shadow around the king's head and the colours.
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Nigel
Valued Member
Switzerland
251 Posts
Posted 02/01/2017   5:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add codexluminati to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Nigel, it seem that the greek islands stamps where flooded with reprints and forgeries.
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Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
3146 Posts
Posted 02/01/2017   6:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm afraid so.

If it's any comfort you were lucky with the two Russian tridents. Most of these are forged too.
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Nigel
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