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Complete Fourth Bureau 1922-26 Series

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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 08/11/2020   8:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Lincoln is only on one stamp, the rest of the people also count.
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Posted 08/11/2020   8:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
ANOTHER THREAD SHOT TO HELL BECAUSE A COUPLE OF YOU CAN'T STAY AWAY FROM POLITICS! YES, IT DESERVES SHOUTING!
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Posted 08/11/2020   8:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BFRomeos to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
four slave owners plus a major league racist


The latter being Wilson, I believe. He's intriguing because his impact on history was very similar to Churchill's. Both were inspired orators, both served as heads of state during a world war, and both appreciated the power of international alliances as both men invested their political capital to advance such organizations. Yet both men also categorically disparaged people of color. Almost contradictory, no?

The choices of personages depicted in this series reflect the mores of the day. Imagine a modern reissue of the same designs... would we see Sally Hemmings presented in sequence with Thomas Jefferson?

Just sayin'
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Posted 08/11/2020   8:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm sorry the fact that stamps are political by nature bothers you.
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Posted 08/11/2020   9:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, without the history, all of the history, stamps really are just colored pieces of paper. Most collectors relish the history and the robust discussion which comes with it. That is changing though in some circles and the whole thing is becoming sanitized to discussing perf rates and paper types. While those are integral parts of philately so is history, good, bad and ugly.

Take the upcoming Siegel sale of Confederate material. The catalog is a history lesson and very well done. Take out the history which provides the context and you really do not have much at all.

We do not all see eye to eye but if we all agreed all of the time it would be a very dull world indeed.

Rev and I have vastly different points of view on some issues but I appreciate that we can have some feisty dialogue. Makes one feel alive.

I tip my hat to you Rev.

Cheers
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Posted 08/12/2020   09:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jkelley01938 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with John Becker. By the way, that's a beautiful set you have, BFRomeos.

Jack Kelley
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Posted 08/12/2020   09:46 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
My basic point being that we should be careful when judging past historical figures by current ethical, moral and legal standards. Yes, certain ones in this series were slaveholders, but what were the norms in America, and in particular the South, in the 1700s and early 1800s? What is the context of society in their era? What were the societal norms in the early 1920s when these subjects were selected for this series? If every "sinner" by today's standards were prohibited from being on a stamp, we would have few honored.

Similarly, 200 years from now, will our ethical, moral, and legal standards of 2020 be considered acceptable by the standards of 2220?

Let's appreciate the set of stamps and leave the politics and lifestyles of those portrayed for another day. And yes, the 2 cent sticks out as a candidate for an upgrade in centering.
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Posted 08/12/2020   1:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jkelley01938 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Back to the stamps. I just dragged out my completed MNH set. I had despaired over buying these stamps years ago. Then the market crashed and I was back in the game. All in the timing, I guess. Anyway, yours' looks better than mine BFRomeo.

Jack Kelley
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Posted 08/12/2020   1:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"but what were the norms in America?"

The same old twisted logic. What about the millions who did not own slaves? Weren't they part of the "norm"? At least they didn't put Jackson on one of the values, he owned more then any other president, over 700.
And just so no one gets the wrong idea, I think the three dollar values are among the finest stamps issued by the US in the 20th century.
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Posted 08/12/2020   2:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BFRomeos to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
To nudge this thread into different territory... I'm curious: Roughly what proportion of your stamp investments have been for upgrades to replace specimens you already held?

I've been in this game for a mere 20 months now, and already I've made a few upgrades, if only inadvertently and as a consequence of purchasing lots.

One day I found myself maintaining two U.S. collections in parallel: one MNH and the other primarily used.


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Posted 08/12/2020   7:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I try to acquire items that don't need to be upgraded. When purchasing sets sometimes you might get one in the group with horrible centering, if so I try and make sure its one of the lower value items. Love your 4th bureau sets, one of my favorites. All I have left are a couple of the rotary press issues to complete the basic single stamp Flat plates and rotary press pieces, I posted tthem here a while back...


http://goscf.com/t/29359
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Posted 08/12/2020   9:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BFRomeos to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@Stallzer

Having scanned your collection's issue, I'd trade almost any of my specimens for yours - except maybe the $5 denomination.

Happy stampin'...
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Posted 08/12/2020   9:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
When I first started out collecting (45-50 years ago, I am now 58), I was busy filling spaces so the only way I was going to get an example of an expensive stamp was to buy a faulty one. I suspect most people starting out do that. It's all part of the learning process - the more stamps you see/buy, the more you will learn about them and the hobby. At some point, you get tired of looking at that spacefiller - THAT'S when you graduate to becoming an 'upgrader'. Also, there's a fine line between a crappy spacefiller that gnaws at you, and a crappy spacefiller that has some deeper meaning to you (that stamp that a good friend gave you, or the first expensive stamp that you ever bought, or.... there are a million reasons to grow attached to an ugly stamp). You will need to determine for yourself what amount of your budget to spend of upgrading.

I don't see owning multiples of the same issue as having 'duplicates' - I just have YET ANOTHER example. All are worthy of a space in the album. When I WAS upgrading, I would tend to spend about 10% of my budget on upgrades. That 'rule' got broken all the time - sometimes I spent much more and some months I spent much less. My experience is that there are ALWAYS stamps I want to buy, and I was limited by budget (not, 'is this within my monthly stamp budget', but more like 'do I want this 5c 1847 or food this month?'). I finally learned to buy the best I could afford. This reduced trying to get rid of replaced stamps. As I got older and my income went up, I could afford better examples of earlier purchases. I ended up being an 'opportunity' buyer - I massaged my need to buy so it matched my finances and I ended up buying better stamps - I knew if I waited I would probably find a better example than the one right in front of me at that moment, so I could afford to walk away (and spend my money on a better example of something else instead). You are learning the same thing, and you will find your comfort zone. Just understand that there are loads of really nice stamps out there - you just have to be patient enough to find them. If you've spent all your money on a bunch of spacefillers earlier in the day, it will suck that you can no longer afford the treasure you just found. So, be patient - the good stuff comes along.
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Posted 08/12/2020   9:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Having scanned your collection's issue, I'd trade almost any of my specimens for yours - except maybe the $5 denomination.


I just looked through the ones I scanned and forgot how bad those scans were. I scanned them on my old scanner which was horrible with the colors and sharpness. One day I'll scan them on the newer scanner.
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Posted 08/12/2020   10:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BFRomeos to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@Mootermutt987

A great answer - thank you.

I find that all of my philatelic philosophies (acquisition priorities, condition preferences, album management, etc.) have evolved a lot over these 20 months. I have some modest clutter issues due to duplicates (is this not true for all of us?) but I counter that by strictly limiting all my albums and related incidentals to no more than 32 shelf-inches. That's probably a "modest" collection compared to those held by other members of this forum



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