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Complete Fourth Bureau 1922-26 Series

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
571 Posts
Posted 08/14/2020   08:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add funcitypapa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rev: I appreciate your passion and respect your opinion. For me this is about whether persons depicted on US stamps contribute to the American story. You advise me to read about Jackson; I have. While in no way condoning Jackson's means of Indian removal and the Trail of Tears, I remind you again that he was not the first president to think in terms of Indian relocation. Washington realized there was a problem. He and Henry Knox tried to come up with a benign, controlled and humane policy. Unfortunately they were overtaken by the mass of humanity sweeping over the Alleghenies and west from Georgia settling lands won in the Revolutionary War.

Jefferson did not have quite so benign a policy. He enlisted William Henry Harrison to clear out the Indians in the Old Northwest Territory by one means or another. This is detailed in "Mr Jefferson's Hammer." So were Jefferson and Jackson saints, sinners, or like many of us a bit of both? You can criticize Jefferson for his artful deceit at times or the hypocrisy of having a slave as a concubine but he is also the man who single handedly gave us the Declaration of Independence and saw the vision of controlling the Port of New Orleans that gave rise to quick action in purchasing The Louisiana Territory when the opportunity arrived. But Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence essentially by himself over a very few days. He may have remembered, plagiarized, or used parts of other things he had read, but the structure and formation of ideas was his, not the result of a popular forum or debate. The debate, who we are and who we want to be, was originally defined by Jefferson as a single man. But he was the one who defined US and we have been arguing about and refining what his ideas meant ever since. The genius of our Constitution is that it permits this debate and permits modification without anarchy or a second revolution.

Jackson was not a common man, but he represented the common man to many citizens of the time, particularly in the frontier areas and expanding western settlements. He also represented democracy to them and coming 30 years after Jefferson, his brand of democracy was different than Jefferson in part because the country had continued to expand and evolve over the preceding 3 decades. The debate his presidency stimulated led to the founding of the Democratic Party, ensuring the debate would continue.

You don't have to like Jefferson's or Jackson's thoughts or actions, but they were early American's who by their thoughts, writings, actions, and yes contradictions defined the American argument that defines us as a Nation, in ways that truly separate us as a people in world history, to our benefit in my opinion.

And their role in helping us define who we are and who we want to be makes them great in my opinion and worthy of inclusion on our cultural and artistic images, including coins, stamps, and currency.

Just one man's opinion.

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Edited by funcitypapa - 08/14/2020 10:28 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
6937 Posts
Posted 08/14/2020   08:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"he is also the man who single handedly gave us the Declaration of Independence"

TOTALLY FALSE. To begin with he stole a whole paragraph from a speech by Ricard Henry Lee to congress 8 months before (That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States......). In addition, he used the works and principles of John Locke for the the ideas of rest. To be sure, he wrote in his own style, and he was a great stylist, but it was hardly "single handedly". Although after Lee was dead Jefferson told everyone that he alone wrote it.
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Valued Member
United States
200 Posts
Posted 08/14/2020   09:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BFRomeos to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
May I humbly propose a series of definitive stamps depicting the "Pillars of the Community" of this forum...
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6937 Posts
Posted 08/14/2020   10:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
No thank you. Not my idea of a good time.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
571 Posts
Posted 08/14/2020   10:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add funcitypapa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rev: you completely missed my point and I did state that Jefferson's ideas were an incorporation from other sources. The distinction from John Locke is that Locke was a philosopher discussing grand ideas in general whereas Jefferson words defined the credo of a nation. No less than another great American, Abraham Lincoln, clearly considered the DOI not only sacred, but the founding document that defined us and our ideals as a nation.
But it is pointless discussing this further with you because I think you are a person that just likes to argue and thinks he is so much smarter than everyone else.

I'm out of this thread—
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Edited by funcitypapa - 08/14/2020 10:30 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
6937 Posts
Posted 08/14/2020   11:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think I am smarter than everyone else, just that the truth matters. And that blanket love for past Americans can be dangerous, and not all the people on stamps are worthy of high praise. And the intrinsic beauty of a set should not blind people to this.
The statement that started all of this was that this set is better than anything produced over the last several years; my point is that a set which contains four slave owners and a major league racist cannot be better, no matter how attractive the production was. That the subjects are at least as important as the designs themselves.
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Edited by revcollector - 08/14/2020 11:21 am
Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
5034 Posts
Posted 08/14/2020   11:56 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I made that five slaveowners, Rev, or are you giving Franklin a pass for his recantation?
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Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
946 Posts
Posted 08/14/2020   12:04 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This set was important to me at one point in my collecting. It was at a point where I could afford to get XF stamps that were never hinged of this issue. The highest denominations were a stretch for me at that time. So the challenge of finding really well centered stamps and the challenge of negotiating for price all helped me focus on the hobby. The stamps are attractive and brightly colored. Frankly at the time I could care much about the people on the stamps. But the non-people stamps are great American themed images. The statue of Liberty, the head of Freedom, the Golden Gate before the bridge, Niagra Falls, etc. It was a great set to collect. One of these days, now that I know about regumming I will have to do a careful inspection of all those stamps that I think are NH. But I kind of avoid doing that because I worked so hard to get that set. Lol I wont' be surprised if there is a regum in there, but I bought most directly from dealers at shows. That makes me feel a little more confident, but...someday I'll check.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6937 Posts
Posted 08/14/2020   2:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Actually I simply forgot about him in that regard (he had two personal slaves). Franklin did later become an abolitionist.
But I would also give him a bit of a pass for two inventions that have saved uncounted millions of lives over the centuries, the lightning rod and the Franklin Stove. Which he wrote about and never patented and then allowed people to use at will.
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Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
4764 Posts
Posted 08/14/2020   5:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It is a great set for somebody that wants to incorporate variety and depth. The Scott listed (but not always valued) varieties range from colors/shades to cracked plates, plate scratches, double transfers, imperf pairs and different perfs on one side. I attempted to start an in-depth collection of this series and it was too much for me. Some of the material is very difficult to find. And then there are the plate blocks and cover usages. A very interesting series indeed for the right person.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6937 Posts
Posted 08/14/2020   5:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have two of the major double transfers. I have both a MNH plate block and a MNH plate single of the six cent DT, and I have an FDC of the twelve cent with a block of four, one of which has the major DT. The others are very scarce and hard to find. The six is the easiest, being part of a plate block.
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Valued Member
United States
232 Posts
Posted 08/14/2020   6:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Germania to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It is a great set for somebody that wants to incorporate variety and depth. The Scott listed (but not always valued) varieties range from colors/shades to cracked plates, plate scratches, double transfers, imperf pairs and different perfs on one side. I attempted to start an in-depth collection of this series and it was too much for me. Some of the material is very difficult to find. And then there are the plate blocks and cover usages. A very interesting series indeed for the right person.


One of the key reference manuals I used years ago when I was collecting this set is by Armstrong. It has a lot of interesting information I have never seen anywhere else. Perhaps someone knows if a better reference is now available.



Armstrong's own history is somewhat sordid and would have many detractors today.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6937 Posts
Posted 08/14/2020   6:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
He did have a sordid history, but it's a fine book, as are his books on coils, and the W/F series.
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