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Victoria 1912 1d Rose Emergency Printing - Catalogue Value?

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Posted 08/14/2020   02:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add jimjamtwo to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Does anyone have an entry in their Gibbons for this stamp (SG 458a) in used condition? Mine gives a mint value of fifty pounds but - as so often happens - there's nothing there for used.

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Posted 08/14/2020   02:39 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I wish members could identify stamps by perforation and watermark,
even type number.
I have no listing for SG458A

Hence cannot assist.
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Posted 08/14/2020   02:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I do.

In my 2018 SG, the used and mint prices are the same, both 50

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Posted 08/14/2020   04:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 22crows to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In the 2020 SG ed. it is still 50 for both mint and used.
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Posted 08/14/2020   07:21 am  Show Profile Check fairdinkumstamps's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add fairdinkumstamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Jimjamtwo,

Given that SG 458a is the sideways variant of the rarer 5th type of V over Crown watermark, it would be interesting to see the watermark.

Are you able to provide a scan of the back please?
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https://www.fairdinkumstamps.com Fair Dinkum Stamps - Specialising in stamps from early Australia and the colonies, Australian philatelic literature, catalogues, stockbooks and accessories.
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Posted 08/14/2020   10:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add EMaxim to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
My copy of Commonwealth and British Empire is admittedly not a recent one, and it shows this stamp as 457a. Has the numbering been redone?
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Posted 08/14/2020   6:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jimjamtwo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Bobby & 22crows. That's all I wanted to know.

EMaxim, in my catalogue there is no #457a, but 457 is the 1/2d bantam.

fairdinkum, the watermark can only be seen when the stamp is held up to the light.

Scan of the reverse shows virtually nothing.

My catalogue gives a higher value (sixty pounds) to the 4th V over Crown issue. The real find would be a perf 11 example of either issue.

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Edited by jimjamtwo - 08/14/2020 9:33 pm
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Posted 08/14/2020   11:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 22crows to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
EMaxim - yes, the numbering has changed.
In my SG British Commonwealth catalogue 2000 ed. the halfpenny green (perf 12) is numbered 460 (separated from those stamps perf 12 x 12). At some stage it was renumbered 457, and the original 1d 457 (and 457a) and 2d 458 (and 458a) renumbered 458 (and 458a) and 459 (and 459a), with the 9d 459 becoming 460.
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Edited by 22crows - 08/15/2020 01:56 am
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Posted 08/15/2020   12:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Given that SG 458a is the sideways variant of the rarer 5th type of V over Crown watermark,


Finally, got an proper ID.
So must be a line perforation, Guage 12.2 x 12.4
Crown over double lined "A" Wmk sideways to the left.
Found it in the Australian Specialists catalogue.

My query, if so, does not look like a comb perforation to me
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Edited by rod222 - 08/15/2020 12:49 am
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Posted 08/15/2020   04:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry Rod but I'm not quite following you.

The stamp 458a is SG Wmk 104 - a double lined V over crown.

The stamp would be a line perf. stamp would it not?
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Posted 08/15/2020   04:29 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Sorry Rod but I'm not quite following you.


Apologies not needed Bobby, trying to reach the truth.
This highlights (for me) the problem with collectors failing to give appropriate ID of the stamp in hand.

Status: I am seeking the correct ID, (for my records) and apologise for any mistakes I make.

Failure to see the Wmk in correct upright stamp, and not knowing the perforation, I can only go by the Thread Title, "Emergency printing"
and by Fairdinkum stamps suggesting "fifth type of V"

If my reading is correct,
Watermark V over Crown (V5)
earliest recorded date 5th August 1912
Paper: Watermark V over Crown over double lined A (V5 pattern) (Not intended for postage stamp printing)
Total print run : 21,500,000
Comb Perf 12.2 x 12.4
1d Rose carmine
4 plates used.

Watermarks exist as Inverted, Sideways to the left, or Reversed.

Please feel free to correct me, I don't mind being wrong, as long as I get it right, for my reading of stamps.

FYI (For your interest)
These papers were machine made, ergo, approx 1 in every 1,500 stamps, should show a "Stitch mark"



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Edited by rod222 - 08/15/2020 05:38 am
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Posted 08/15/2020   04:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Great extra information Rod

I don't have the info for Victoria from the 2004 ACSC. When I borrowed that volume I only copied the NSW info for reference, which is amusing to me now because I have zero collecting focus on those issues!
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Posted 08/15/2020   04:46 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jimjamtwo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Oh, Gibbons doesn't list a reversed watermark, rod222! Is this upright reversed or sideways reversed?
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Posted 08/15/2020   04:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rod,

Could you please expand on the term stitch mark?

Would this perhaps appear as a vertical or horizontal line across the stamp, giving the impression it might be some sort of watermark?
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Posted 08/15/2020   04:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Bobby, give me time to respond there.


Quote:
Oh, Gibbons doesn't list a reversed watermark, rod222! Is this upright reversed or sideways reversed?


At this point of time, I have no idea on Brusden White's interpretation of alignments of Watermarks.
I'll read up, meanwhile, assume it to be the same as Gibbons and reversed will be shown with imaging at front of the Gibbons catalogue.

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Edited by rod222 - 08/15/2020 04:59 am
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Posted 08/15/2020   05:02 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Here is an example of a stitch watermark on a US stamp



Don
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