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Color Challenge. Am I Seeing Things?

 
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Posted 08/30/2020   5:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Partime to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I know we've had discussion about colors, monitor differences, 100 year old stamps aging naturally, etc. However, I'd like to post a quick test to see how bad my color rating is in this category. This is a page from RH White's book, and I scanned at one time. Here is the only page where I don't quite get it.


Now the page says that the 4 centers are dark brown and brown. The 5 centers are chocolate and yellowish brown. MY eyes are telling me that the 4 centers are a distinct shade of green, with perhaps a brown highlight/shadow in the middle. The 5 centers are both different shades of brown to me, so I'll agree with the descriptions on those. I've asked a friend to look at this, and he says that the 4 centers are definitely brown, just like the written words. Am I going crazy? What do you think?
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Posted 08/30/2020   6:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JLLebbert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
All are shades of brown on my monitor. But the eye tends to see what it expects to see, and I expected these 4-cent Lincolns would appear brown.
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Posted 08/30/2020   6:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Partime to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, but I had zero expectations, and say they are green. So, off to the eye doctor I go.
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Posted 08/30/2020   6:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't have much in the way of preconceptions about these. On my monitor, I'm seeing more of an olive-green on the outer part of the Lincoln stamps, rather than the centres.
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Posted 09/06/2020   10:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Partime to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I had one brother and two daughters check this, and they all say that the Lincolns are olive green. So maybe my family has a slightly defective issue with this shade of color. Hmm.
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Posted 09/08/2020   6:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For comparison. My scanner is pretty accurate with the actual colors.

Listed in Scott specialized as dark brown





Listed as brown red


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Posted 09/08/2020   7:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
And here are the other 2


Chocolate





Also listed as Chocolate



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Posted 09/09/2020   12:56 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JLLebbert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I took another look at your Lincolns ... and, like another poster, I do see some olive, especially on the outer edges of your stamps. The other Lincoln posted here is most definitely dark brown. I would consider yours perhaps "olive brown".
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Posted 09/18/2020   08:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add srailkb to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The image you posted can be analyzed for color (I used Photoshop, but any program with a color picker will probably do). The RGB in the left 4c is 93, 99, 89. The right 4c is 105, 116, 100. The left 5c is 136, 121, 98 and the right 128, 103, 81. (Those are averages of several samples in the oval surrounding the numeral, and there is quite a bit of variance so take it with a grain of salt.)

That puts the 4c stamps from your image in the green part of the spectrum and the 5c stamps in the orange. But like everything, there's a range of shades that people will call brown. So what you're really seeing is a greenish-brown and an orangish-brown. Neither is close to "brown" as officially defined (RGB 165,42,42), which actually looks reddish-brown to my eye. But whatever...

On a related note, there are many problems with the White reference, and you've run into a few of them here... Don't take those colors as gospel. There are many plates that are just plain wrong, and the colors shown aren't close to reality. The REAL 4c stamps (Scott 222) don't have a greenish cast to them at all...they are much closer to stallzer's example posted above.
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Posted 09/19/2020   09:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add amccleaf1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
srailkb, thank you for the analysis and the tip on the method! This is very interesting. Is it safe to say that, while any given scanner may not produce true color scans, this method would show valid distinctions between 2 scans from the same scanner?
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Posted 09/19/2020   09:43 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Many graphics image 'color pickers' allow you to change the size of the picker tool. (Doing a single pixel is incredibly difficult since you then need to make many, many additional picks in surrounding color and then average them). Apps which allow you to change the size of the 'picker' tool do the averaging automatically, saving you a lot of time. I typically set the picker tool size to around 20-25 pixels and then also sample several areas.

And ultimately, none of us are doing the analysis on the actual stamp but instead analyzing the color of someone's scanner, scanner drivers, and graphics app 'file save' algorithms (and any other image filters/alterations like 'optimizers').
Don
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Posted 09/19/2020   9:41 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"Is it safe to say that, while any given scanner may not produce true color scans, this method would show valid distinctions between 2 scans from the same scanner?"

If both scanned in the same single scan and with the same background.

edited to add - but if one stamp has toned paper and one has fresh paper that will definitely alter your visual perception of the ink colors and may alter the digital results.
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Edited by eyeonwall - 09/19/2020 9:46 pm
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