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Guide Arrows On 1869 Issue

 
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Posted 09/23/2020   11:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add widglo46 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I recently acquired a #112 with a distinctive target cancel. I thought the stamp was quite nicely centered, and I was surprised that it had a 2019 PSE certificate with a grade of just 80J. There are no faults mentioned except for the horizontal guide arrow at the bottom right. I reviewed Siegel's auction records for other examples of the 1869 issue with guide arrows, and I couldn't see from the hammer prices that collectors had shunned away from them in any way.

Personally, I don't find the guide arrows anywhere near the same visual distraction as guidelines themselves. So I'd like to ask those with experience as dealers - is my idea of eye-appeal the exception, and do most collectors find guide arrows objectionable such that a downgrade is inline with the market value?


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Posted 09/23/2020   1:43 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think the guide arrow is a fault. I certainly wouldn't think that would impact the grade. I'd say 80-85 is about right for this. The left and bottom sides are even, but the top is a bit smaller and the right a bit wider. Overall I'd say VF80J is actually a decent grade for this.
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Posted 09/23/2020   2:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I see the arrow mentioned as part of the factual description on the certificate. I see no indication they considered it a fault.

In my opinion, it naturally shows a portion of a plate marking. This would be a premium plate position piece to some and a detraction to others.
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Posted 09/23/2020   2:10 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A small fault that knocked the grade down 5 points probably would not be mentioned on the cert. Graded certs are different from conventional certs in that way.
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Posted 09/24/2020   06:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add srailkb to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It's centered to the top & left. My guess is that it started with an 85J or 90J grade and was knocked down a notch or two for the guide arrow. PSE deducts points for guidelines. While they don't specifically mention guide arrows, my guess is that they treated it as they would a guideline and considered it an extremely minor fault or very minor fault (depending on how prominent it is -- this is pretty prominent).

In my 23+ years as a full-time dealer, I'd say that most collectors do not object to guidelines (but the number who do is growing, probably because PSE penalizes it). For me personally, I like guidelines & guide arrows, as it helps identify the position from the pane/sheet. I could even make a case that a stamp like this should be assigned a premium, not a penalty...
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Posted 09/24/2020   08:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I for one would rather have a guideline / arrow than not. I think they should bring a small premium just for the ability to narrow down the plate position. Doesn't Scott list some stamp plate blocks with arrows higher than a standard plate blocks?
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Posted 09/24/2020   10:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Another stamp that points out how silly grading often is. Here is a very nice example with a desirable position marking; a stamp many collectors would be happy to own. Why get hung up on an artificial number put on by a third party only interested in getting paid to do so.
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Posted 09/24/2020   10:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I fully agree with revcollector on this. A very desirable stamp despite the grading nonsense

Peter
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Posted 09/24/2020   12:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add canyoneer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I actually like guidelines and they don't detract IMO ... if one knows pane layout it can sometimes eliminate reperfing suspicion for that side. On the other hand, perfs on a guideline that plate layout says should be a straightedge screams reperf.
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Posted 09/24/2020   12:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Molokai to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Very stingy grading, IMHO.I think the guideline/arrow is a small 'plus.' The 1c is one of the generally better-centered Pictorials, perhaps the impression is a bit weak? But still...
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Posted 09/24/2020   1:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add widglo46 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
srailkb - Your impression is the same as mine. If one ignored the guide arrow, I thought the grade should be 85J or 90J. Perhaps the worn state of the plate may have negatively affected the grade, but in my estimation, the nice cancel offset this.

It's interesting that the dealer who sold me this stamp to me advertised it with a 2020 PSAG cert graded XF 90, and claimed that they were unaware of the earlier PSE cert. How many times have we heard that?

revcollector - For a $200 stamp, I fully agree with you. I was fully aware of both certs, and I just ignored the grades. I wish I could say that I dare do the same for $2000 stamps.
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Posted 09/24/2020   10:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
An 85 I could see, but a 90? No way.
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