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Stamps I Sold Through Kelleher In Large Lot End Up In Sandafayre Sale

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Posted 10/29/2020   10:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add rogdcam to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I was pretty amazed to be perusing the Russia lots in the upcoming Sandafayre sale of 10 November and recognize 102 cards that I consigned to Kelleher last year. They were not broken out as a Russia group when they were sold but rather were in a group of dozens of red boxes containing many thousands of 102 cards which contained stamps I processed out of large lot purchases. I paid between 3-5 percent for the large lots and after processing them I sold the red boxes for roughly 5-8 percent of catalog and I was happy at that. Now the Russia cards are estimated at 30 percent of catalog. I have to wonder how much of the other material (WW in scope) ended up with Sandafayre. I would also love to know what the journey entailed and how the heck they ended up in the UK. Does Sandafayre buy from Kelleher? Did somebody else consign the material?

I had to share this because I could have been knocked over with a feather when I saw them.

Lot 3004 if you are curious.
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Posted 10/30/2020   02:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It's like running into an old friend in a strange airport. Yeah, knowing the story behind the story would be interesting, but you may never know. I wonder how direct the route was between Kelleher and Sandafayre. Interesting how it is estimated - would be interesting to know what the lot sells for. There is a fine line between breaking down a consignment in big enough chunks to make money and keep the consignor happy (by keeping lotting costs down), compared to breaking it down in small chunks to have the lots be more 'focused' and presumably bring more (but with higher lotting costs).

About 30 years ago, I sold some bits out of my grandfather's collection. I needed the money. I have regretted it ever since. I have been looking for them in every auction I look at ever since. So far, nothing. There are 3 or 4 that were unique enough in appearance that I would recognize them immediately if I saw them. The search goes on.

I am sure people that have been robbed do a similar search. Can you imagine finding that uniquely cancelled stamp that was stolen years ago? I am sure it happens occasionally.
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Posted 10/30/2020   07:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gmot to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Perhaps Sandafayre does the same as Vance in Canada - a significant portion of their inventory is bought from other auction houses, broken out to some extent, and then listed in their sales at a higher X% of CV - and if it doesn't sell, kept back for a sale or two, and then relisted.
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Posted 10/30/2020   07:39 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Since writing this yesterday I reviewed more of the lot listings in the Sandafayre auction and although I cannot 100% be certain I believe that a number of the single stamp lots were mine as well. They are higher value items and they are of course removed from the 102 cards so my writing is not available to confirm. If other red box material shows up I will conclude that Sandafayre buys at US auction for resale.

If it was them at least I know who was really, really slow paying for their purchases.
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Posted 10/30/2020   08:21 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It can be upsetting if one gets little for their stamps at an auction. Then some dealer who bought them turns around and sells them for much more than you got for them in the auction. Once got $50.00 for some stamps that were put in an auction and then saw the same stamps get sold for $500.00 by a dealer.
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Posted 10/30/2020   08:32 am  Show Profile Check KRelyea's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add KRelyea to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Last year I was at Kelleher viewing lots and chatting with the viewer next to me. Eventually he identified himself as the owner of Sandafayre. I was surprised that it was profitable for him to fly here and buy from Kelleher.
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Posted 10/30/2020   09:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add steevh to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sandafayre's prices are very high, so their profit margin allows them to invest a lot in marketing, flying to the US etc.

If they sell at 30% of cat then they can afford to fly to US to buy at 8% from Kelleher.

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Posted 10/30/2020   09:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hoosierboy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Morning all,

About fifteen years ago I sold a box of covers to a NC base dshow dealer. Great folks who have since retired from the business. For several years thereafter I was able to revisit some of my old friend covers and my old friends the next show we crossed paths. More than just money involved in philately.
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Edited by hoosierboy - 10/30/2020 09:33 am
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Posted 10/30/2020   10:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ken explained it! I checked my records and that material sold last year so yes Sandafayre did buy it at Kelleher. Being the person that put together the lots I can say that quality was VERY "mixed". That being said there were some truly amazing items mixed in that actually could have constituted single lots at a really good auction. Life at the time really got in the way of my putting the time and energy into putting aside the right stuff, organizing the material and deciding how to proceed. I regret it now. On the other hand my wife is still with me and a room in the house is now free.

Trust me when I say that there really are bargains to be had in some large lots. On the other hand I have consigned some real turkeys that made me scratch my head at the bidding wars that took place.

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Posted 10/30/2020   10:45 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
...Being the person that put together the lots I can say that quality was VERY "mixed"...


Quote:
...Trust me when I say that there really are bargains to be had...


Interesting concept...'bargains' in a lot which you salted.
Don
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Posted 10/30/2020   10:56 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It was not salted. I put the items in as I processed the material and stuck the cards in a red box regardless of what they contained. The good, bad and ugly. I had so much volume to process and so many 102 cards piling up that it overwhelmed me. And then my wife entered the equation. As I said, somebody benefited greatly from my position. Good for them. Bargains can be had.
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Posted 10/30/2020   11:48 am  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"If it was them at least I know who was really, really slow paying for their purchases"

You are assuming the buyer really was slow in paying and that you weren't being fed a line by the auction house.
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Posted 10/30/2020   11:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I assume nothing.
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Posted 10/30/2020   6:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I worked for a few auction houses in the 1980's. They each had their normal public auctions, and tended to be lots (singles, sets, collections) that would net $100+. Very similar to what you see today at Kelleher, Seigel, or the others that we have all heard of. Each company also had a sister business of Mail Sales. Similar to an auction (collectors bid on each lot, each lot sold to the highest bidder [if it met the house-imposed minimum], and there was a closing date), but with certain differences (no roomful of bidders - all done by mail/phone/FAX, the material was more in the $10-$100 range, and perhaps only 5% of the lots were photoed).

For each of these companies, we were always wanting for Mail Sale material. We often attended auctions around the country. One of the owners of one of the companies often went to England/Ireland - he always came back with stamps, but I think he was mostly there visiting family, pubs, soccer games, etc. One of our greatest 'unknown' sources was Lippert in Detroit. We were ALWAYS there viewing early and looking through every carton, top to bottom. Once, we got a ratty old remainder lot in a few cartons, but at the very bottom of one of the cartons was a complete MNH collection of blocks of FSAT. My boss (who was there) was willing to pay $5k, based on the FSAT, and the lot opened at a couple $100. It was estimated for $300-500. It got bid up to $1500, and we got it - bidding was between my boss and a single collector. We would have made good money on it at $5k. We took out the FSAT, put the $100+ stuff in one of our auctions, the $10-$100 stuff in our Mail Sale, and sold the remaining cartons - probably untouched except for the FSAT - in one of our collection auctions. If it weren't for my boss digging to the bottom of all the cartons, this lot probably would have sold near the opening bid to the collector. I made up the #'s, but the story is true, and the numbers in my story are reasonably accurate for 'scale'.

My point is that there can be bargains to be had at many auctions (especially collection auctions), depending on the material, the market, and the audience. It CAN be worthwhile for a dealer (show dealer, eBay seller, auctioneer, etc) to attend other companies' auctions. If they aren't there, many lots would sell for less than they do. As a consignor, one should hope that the room is crowded - whether it is full of deep-pocket collectors, or dealers, or other auctioneers, shouldn't really matter. A consignor wants his stamps to sell for as much as the room will bear, whether it is to someone else that will mark it up to get his profit or a collector who will value and admire it for years. (ETA: the 'full room' is important so that the lots are a viewed fully. Descriptions aren't always accurate. Large lots are rarely photoed in full, although that is getting better.)

As with any kind of industry, you should shop around and see which company will meet your needs best. As a consignor, that often means consigning with multiple auction houses, to see who gets the best $$$ and is responsive enough when it is time to get the $$$ into your pocket. There are A's out there, and there are F's (as well as everything in between), and your experience may be very different from the consignor that walked in 5 minutes before you.
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Edited by mootermutt987 - 10/30/2020 7:05 pm
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Posted 10/31/2020   8:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I met the people from SANDAFAYRE back in the early 1990's and met them again at the same auction house for many years . They were aggressive bidders and very friendly people to go out with after a full day of viewing .

My wife and daughters have instructions,after I pass that go like this " get four or five bids on my stamps and call SANDAFAYRE last and ask them to fly in and get their bid for everything ,if their bid is close to the high bid or is the high bid ,let them take it . Those instructions are 20 years old, the collection is twice the size now and the instructions still hold .

They were my biggest competitor at Cherrystone in January 2003 for the inventory of JOHN ROSS . They were bidding based on catalog value and resale value . I was bidding for the dreams of my youth . I went home with those counter books that John would let me look thru when he knew I was spending less than $10.00 per trip to his store .
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Posted 11/01/2020   07:56 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jkelley01938 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Could it have been on consignment?

Jack Kelley
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