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A Question On Scott International

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Posted 11/07/2020   07:09 am  Show Profile Check wheelman's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add wheelman to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I am considering investing in Scott International for the remaining thousands and thousands of un-cataloged stamps in my personal inventory. The question is primarily for Part 1. I see listings on e-commerce for used versions some in pretty good shape but not current production. As Part 1 covers up to 1940 what is the primary difference between the single edition Part one and the Part one four volumes? Have there been that many new stamps somehow added to the first 100 years? Are the newer editions updated to be 100% of all known stamps?
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Edited by wheelman - 11/07/2020 11:33 am

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Posted 11/07/2020   11:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Climber Steve to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Wheelman: I think it depends on what you're aiming to do, in a more specific fashion. I bought my Internationals; Parts I through V; around 1983-84. I found Part I to be sorely lacking in having spaces for all issued stamps, even those that were inexpensive. It seemed as if the Scott editors were including what they thought collectors would best want. For my specialty areas; since I've downsized from a world wide collection; I've gone to quadrille blank pages, trimmed down Scott specialty pages; and now have some "Vintage Reproduction" pages that came with several collections I bought. The Vintages are more comprehensive, but still not complete for what I have.

I'm not familiar with the newer Part I in four different volumes. Perhaps someone else can weigh in.
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Posted 11/07/2020   12:09 pm  Show Profile Check wheelman's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add wheelman to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Steve. After a different search criteria I found the answer here.

Posted 01/06/2019 12:05 am Show Profile Email Poster Bookmark this reply Add DrewM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not sure when they made the split into four volumes, but it was just rearranging the pages. Selling four volumes makes them more money than selling two. But they're the same pages. A little like food and drug producers selling for the "same price" a smaller amount of their product, 12 oz. instead of 16 oz.

Scott continues to sell its "junior album" pages as its Scott International ("Big Blue") pages even though they provide only a fairly limited representation of the world's stamps between 1840-1940. And they've been doing this for -- what? -- maybe 50 years now since they moved the original Scott International pages, the previous pages that were completely comprehensive of all stamps issued, over into their Specialty albums for many countries. One way I've resolved my problem with today's Scott International album being too little is to use many Specialty albums for the various countries I prefer to collect in depth. For everything else I use the Scott International, formerly "junior" album, which is good enough for a more modest collection of those countries.

An alternative that I've considered is using the Subway Stamp Shop's "Vintage Reproduction" pages (available from Subway only in both Scott International size pages or Scott Specialty size pages), and combining them with the regular International pages for years after 1940. Since International pages after maybe 1940, and certainly after 1950, were almost completely comprehensive unlike the earlier "junior" pages (today's International album), they don't need to be expanded by someone like Vintage Reproductions.

It's all a bit confusing until you think it through. But the Volume I of the current International album is the same, pretty much, as it's always been for 1840-1940 even if they've spread the pages out into four (not two) volumes.

Whew!
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Posted 11/07/2020   9:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wkusau to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think in the 4 volume international vol 1 that they "may" have reprinted the pages so that each country or groups starts on the front of a page. I could be mistaken.
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Posted 11/08/2020   2:30 pm  Show Profile Check knick1959's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add knick1959 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I think in the 4 volume international vol 1 that they "may" have reprinted the pages so that each country or groups starts on the front of a page. I could be mistaken.


What wkusau said is true. I thought this when I saw your original post a few days ago, but I had no direct example. Now I do!

As I've mentioned somewhere/elsewhere, my Part 1 is a Frankenstein of pages. I took pages from various remnant albums and merged them into a solid starter album as I saw fit ... if I saw a page I prefered over the one I had, I might have switched them out or MORE LIKELY just added the new page in.

So. I was just browsing eBay and comparing an offering to my album as it sits on my desk. My existing (older) album has tons of pages like this:



While the eBay page is obviously(?) newer. Stamps are more spread out in the newer copy and the next country does not start on the same page:



Which explains why there are more pages in newer offerings, although if I understand correctly that it has moved to 4 parts, is a bit excessive IMO.

One of the big advantages to the newer pages is that you can merge them in with later albums more easily OR insert blank pages next to the correct county ... no confusion.
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Edited by knick1959 - 11/08/2020 2:32 pm
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Posted 11/08/2020   4:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jkjblue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If I may humbly suggest checking out my blog..

http://bigblue1840-1940.blogspot.com/

Lots of information about Big Blue (Scott International Part 1 1840-1940)
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Posted 11/08/2020   9:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Coastwatcher to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, the Big Blue blog is excellent. I refer to it daily in my pursuit to fill my Part 1.
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Posted 11/09/2020   07:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add paulsonja to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I second that--Jkjblue's blog is a must read for WW collectors. I had his checklist printed and bound for my want list. Part 1's come up for sale all the time on eBay and in auctions. I bought mine for around $100 for an unused set of pages with a decent binder (New binders are $60+). Prices are all over the place depending on condition and number of stamps included.

Jackie
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Posted 11/09/2020   10:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Climber Steve to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Jkjblue wrote: "If I may humbly suggest....." No real need to be "humble" as I see it. It's a very good product resulting from much hard work.

I do wonder how often the blog is updated. As an example, the Angola reference to the 1914-1926 Ceres identifies a set of 40 stamps. Scott has re-done the Ceres listings for the colonies and Angola now shows 73 Ceres stamps on three different papers, and the two perfs. Of course, another question would deal with Scott updating Part 1 of the International pages or not.

wkusau's reference to different countries being listed on the same page, or on the back, was also an issue for me with my Part 1 pages.
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Edited by Climber Steve - 11/09/2020 10:27 am
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Posted 11/09/2020   8:46 pm  Show Profile Check knick1959's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add knick1959 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I wonder how many people consider moving from the Part 1 to the Brown reprints as heavy as those are. I made a plan to do this and have a set (started, barely, but the previous owner). It seems like a great idea but a ton of work.

What are the downsides to moving the the Brown reprints, if I can solicit some opinions?

It appears that, and least in JKJBlue's case, he opted to supplement with Steiner pages. That certainly is an option, but also a ton of work (picking and printing pages).

I looked at the link and I can see many hours of reading in my near-term future!
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Posted 11/09/2020   10:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jkjblue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I do wonder how often the blog is updated. As an example, the Angola reference to the 1914-1926 Ceres identifies a set of 40 stamps. Scott has re-done the Ceres listings for the colonies and Angola now shows 73 Ceres stamps on three different papers, and the two perfs.


Climber Steve - for Angola, scroll down to the checklist section for the Angola blog post. There I give a Ceres stamps update of "old numbers" to "new numbers".
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Posted 11/10/2020   09:45 am  Show Profile Check wheelman's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add wheelman to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What great discussion and informative responses to my initial question. Thanks all!
Paul
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Posted 11/18/2020   8:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DrewM to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I posted the earlier comments quoted above about the Scott International Volume I (aka the "Big Blue" album), so I'd like to add a couple of things:

As a few commenters have noted (but I didn't), Scott did do some redesigning of its International album pages at some point, apparently primarily to have every country start and end on its own page rather than on another stamp issuer's page. This allows collectors to separate countries cleanly. That required adding more pages. Beyond this, I was not aware of them redesigning pages throughout their albums to make the layouts cleaner and more attractive.

The images from Knick1959 show that they did some page redesigns, but look carefully at his example of what would become the final 1840-1940 page for British Guiana. The "redesign" of this page reorganized the same three sets of stamps, in this case, to fill the now-final page. Even if this was done for every country's final page up to 1940, I don't think this sort of page reorganizing was done throughout Volume I. So it may have been a "what's the least we can do" redesign, mainly to provide for a cleaner last page so each country could end on its own separate page. I guess the question is: Did Scott/Amos do this on pages that weren't the final pages of a country?

Scott also made another change. They went from printing pages on fairly thin paper which was easily tearable to use of much thicker and sturdier pages. Doing that to thousands of pages would make it impossible to put them all into just one or even two volumes, another reason for needing additional volumes of the album.

Binder size may have played a role in needing more Volume I binders. Earlier Volume I albums were packed pretty tightly, more tightly than I think most of us would find appealing today. Old loose-leaf Volume I's really did not allow much room for adding pages. The original loose-leaf binders were smaller (less thick) than those used today, about 2.5" thick. Today, 3.5" is the "small" size International binder. Not knowing this, you might not realize that with these smaller size binders, in order to accommodate page changes requiring more pages, it quickly became necessary to add at least a second binder, if not more. I think today's 4-volume Scott International -- with no other pages added --fits fairly loosely inside its four "small" size binders.

My earlier comments suggest that Scott/Amo spread out their Volume I pages from one to four volumes to sell more volumes, but I don't think that's true so much anymore. The real reason for more pages, and more volumes, were these other changes. They were so they could end every country on its own separate page, thicker paper, and the narrower binders in use at the time. All clearly required more than one volume to hold the pages.

It would be interesting to know what went on at Scott Publishing (now Amos Media) over the years with regard to album production, page designing, album changes, and so forth, but I suppose we'll never know most of it. Any old Scott employee want to write a nice, detailed article with all the details of album design? For their Scott International album, Scott/Amos pretty much kept their choices of which stamps to include as they were originally designed generations ago. They did not add new stamps where they should have been included originally. Once pages were laid out, that's the way they would remain. Unfortunately, lots of fairly common stamps got left out for unknown reasons. This has been an ongoing frustration to collectors for over a century. It perpetuated earlier editors' bad decisions for generations. Maybe now with digital publishing Scott/Amos will at some point go back and add the necessary stamps to their pages -- but what an undertaking that would be! And it would add even more pages.

The Vintage Reproduction pages, remember, were not the original Volume I Scott International album pages. Today's International album pages come not from those pages, but from the 1840-1940 Scott "Junior" album sold more for beginning collectors as a one-volume album. Today's VR pages are the far more comprehensive pages which Scott later turned into the Scott Specialty albums for different countries, the ones still in use today. The Vintage Reproduction pages sold by Subway Stamp Shop was an attempt to provide Scott's original very comprehnsive Volume I pages (their current 1840-1940 Specialty album pages) so collectors could use them in their International albums in place of the less complete Volume I "Junior" album pages. The VR pages are a whole lot more detailed, hence many more pages, and you'll need even more volumes for them!

A lot of what I know about this issue comes from the excellent 1840-1940 Big Blue blog linked above which I highly recommend.
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Edited by DrewM - 11/18/2020 9:47 pm
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Posted 11/19/2020   01:51 am  Show Profile Check ray.mac's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ray.mac to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Wheelman, if you read JJ's Big Blue Blog, you'll see a lot of posts by Drew, and he's made a lot of contributions in his thoughts and Q/A's.

One thing that I'd add to Drew's description is that if you purchase new "Blue" pages in Volumes 1-4, you'll have all of the advantages that Drew has mentioned, but one HUGE disadvantage compared with a used 1941-47 version: There are many, many countries and stamps that have been removed from the album that were in the original Blues.

I've bought about 20 Scott Int'l #1's, maybe more, and have used them to help fill my '47. I started with the '47, and am very happy with it. I commented in JJ's Big Blue blog a few weeks ago that I couldn't imagine collecting Colombia without the Colombian States being in the Album-- they're one of my favorite interests in the Big Blue album. But in the new Volume 1-4, they aren't there anymore, but they are there in my '47 version.

So, this is one other thing you might consider. You'd be able to purchase one on eBay at any time in the $100 range, unless you bid on one with several thousand stamps included, and for the $100 bucks, it'll be a pretty good album for your world classic collection.

Just my 2c. Good luck with whatever direction you go in...
Thanks, Ray
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Posted 11/20/2020   2:35 pm  Show Profile Check knick1959's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add knick1959 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Did Scott/Amos do this on pages that weren't the final pages of a country?

Unfortunately, I do not have a late-model V1 to tell. As noted before, mine is old and actually a Frankenstein ... part a JR with pages added as found "different" that the ones I had in there already.

But for Scott/Amos to do the separable page layouts correctly, it would have had to be more than just moving the next country off of the last page of the previous country. Wouldn't it? You'd have to have airmails, postage due, officials, etc start on a new page so merging albums would still be possible keeping the various sections together. Does anyone know if this is what actually was done? @ray.mac??
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Edited by knick1959 - 11/20/2020 2:36 pm
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Posted 11/20/2020   6:52 pm  Show Profile Check ray.mac's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ray.mac to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry, I can't help with this. Jim or Drew would maybe be able to help. You'll find out everything you want to know if you go to Jim's blog. On vacation this year (during shutdown) when I didn't have a lot to do, I re-read the entire blog again, and it's always interesting and always learn something new.
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