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US Ribbed Stamps 331?

 
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Posted 11/11/2020   8:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add BobInRye to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I recently purchased a 331 with a cert saying that the stamp has ribbed paper. Reading through the various threads about ribbed paper, I believe that the cert is valid. However, given that 331s were issued in 1908/1909, I am looking for any information others may be able to share on this oddity. From the other threads, I was under the impression that ribbed paper was used for a very short period of time.
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Posted 11/11/2020   9:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Who issued the cert and what is the cert number?
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Posted 11/11/2020   11:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BobInRye to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
PSE - 99453 - 6/27/03
http://psestamp.com/Cert/99453/
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Posted 11/11/2020   11:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
BobInRye, Gentle suggestion. To get the most feedback about a stamp you have, it helps to provide FULL information about it up front. Rodgcam had to ask just get the cert data - which we now find out is 17 years old. Why not post a hi-res scan of the front and back of your stamp? Holding back information can give the impression of playing games and often results in us withholding information too. The more you share, the more you get back. Make sense?
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Posted 11/12/2020   10:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Al E. Gator to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
FWIW, there are eight PF certs for W/Fs on ribbed paper and six APS certs for the same; nine different cat. numbers 1c-8c. I believe I read an article or two in the USSS literature regarding there not being actual ribbed paper on W/Fs; not sure where all the experts are on that. As of 2017 (latest cat. I have) Scott hasn't listed any on ribbed paper.
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Posted 11/12/2020   1:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add m and m to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
if I remember correctly ribbed paper was attributed to worn blankets on the printing press. I do not remember where I read it, or how long ago.
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Posted 11/12/2020   3:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BobInRye to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
John Becker - images attached, but I'm not soley (or even primarily) interested in my specific example. Rather, the general case about ribbed paper existing in the 20th century on US stamps. Re this specific stamp, the image does not show anything like ribbing which, as noted in the other ribbed paper discussion threads on this board, is very difficult to do without special lighting and use of a camera. A scan doesn't pick it up because the lighting isn't right.

Al E. Gator - I haven't seen a listing in Scott's and so am trying to find out what's going on. I suspect I will be sending this stamp to the PF for a new cert and, if it comes back as a straight used 331, returning it to Kelleher. Regardless, I'll see what I can dig up in the USSS literature. Thanks for the pointer.





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Posted 11/12/2020   9:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Al E. Gator to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
BobinRye---
I looked up the articles on laid/ribbed paper: The United States Specialist July 2007 and August 2007 issues, also a small comment in the November 2008 issue on pg. 511. If you are a USSS member you can read the digitalized issues.
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Posted 11/12/2020   11:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BobInRye to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Al. The articles are helpful. So glad to have joined the USSS a few years ago. Taken with the threads on ribbing on this site which indicate ribbed paper should be 40 ribs / inch, I am inclined to believe that my cert is incorrect and will be submitting the stamp to the PF.
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Posted 11/13/2020   12:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is a good example of the "scorpions" within the Lang sale(s). Lang had a penchant for selling this type of material at exorbitant prices. There probably is another negative cert that was "lost".
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Posted 11/14/2020   1:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add srailkb to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The Washington Franklin "ribbed paper" variety looks more like a typical "laid" paper, as the vertical lines of the "ribbing" will show in fluid (and also usually while drying). It's well-known to specialists and can be found on other (non Washington-Franklin) issues of the period, like Scott 300-313. IMO, they are not especially rare -- I see them pretty regularly (and will identify as such when I list them for sale - I sell them at a modest premium). My guess is that the PSE cert is just fine -- I doubt there's any need for an updated cert on something like that. I wouldn't assign a super-high value to it though...

I don't believe this was an intentional (i.e. "contracted") paper variety, but it is definitely different from the normal "wove" paper. What to call it is worth discussing... I tend to call them the "so-called laid paper" variety, but wouldn't object to "heavily ribbed paper" variety, or some other descriptive way of noting the unusual paper.
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Edited by srailkb - 11/14/2020 2:00 pm
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Posted 11/14/2020   2:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add srailkb to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
BTW, I should also mention that these "ribbed paper" varieties go well into the 1930's. In fact, you'll even find it on RW1's (1934 Duck stamp), where the ribbing (when present) is usually very pronounced (visible in fluid, similar to "laid" paper). This could be an area worthy of further research/study.
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Posted 11/14/2020   7:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Al E. Gator to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
srailkb---Are you aware of a consensus on the ribbing/laid paper for these later issues among specialists? Do you know where Scott stands on listing them? I'm thinking Scott is hesitant to list, regardless of the certs, without a number of "experts" in agreement on it being a paper variety. I've 12-15 candidates that show vertical laid lines in fluid, but don't think I'd cert. them unless it becomes recognized and a cat. value established to warrant certifying.
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Edited by Al E. Gator - 11/14/2020 7:03 pm
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Posted 11/14/2020   7:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add srailkb to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Al E. Gator, I've given up trying to understand what Scott will or will not list, nor do I understand how they'll number it if they do (major number, minor number, unnumbered variety, etc.) They aren't consistent at all (IMO) on that. I suppose that if the "right" person yanks on their tail enough, it will get listed.

And although the specialists know this paper, I'm not sure that anyone knows why, or how, it came to be. Was it intentional, i.e. were they knowingly & intentionally using a different (ribbed/laid) paper in production for some purpose, or is it just some oddity/freak? If the latter, then most likely it won't ever get a Scott listing. If the former, then it almost certainly will get listed (eventually).

I believe all of the major expertizing agencies will acknowledge this variety though, assuming you submit it as such & we feel that it's the variety. But because it's NOT Scott-listed, (the following is just IMO) unless YOU call it when you submit, it's not likely we'll call it in the opinion, even though I see them crossing my desk fairly frequently...
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