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Help With GB Watermark Identity

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Posted 11/21/2020   4:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add jony78 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

Hi all,

Can anyone tell if this is watermark 111 block cypher or watermark 127, I tried using retro reveal but cannot be certain.

thanks
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Posted 11/21/2020   4:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Partime to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like G vi R to me. (127)
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Posted 11/21/2020   4:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jony78 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thank you partime, my next question is in the orientation below is the stamp sideways inverted?



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Posted 11/21/2020   4:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jony78 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

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Posted 11/21/2020   4:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Partime to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
No, it looks normal. Please note that when you post two pictures with the same name, it replaces the first one.
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Posted 11/21/2020   5:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jony78 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Heres an image from my phone hopefully a bit clearer.
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Posted 11/21/2020   5:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The crown over GviR points to the right seen from the front. That is sideways inverted.
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Posted 11/21/2020   5:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jony78 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Nsk, im slightly confused, so my stamps are sideways inverted?
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Posted 11/21/2020   5:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That's how I read it, although these watermarks are always going to be sideways.
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Posted 11/21/2020   5:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
jony78, The Postage due stamps have sideways watermarks. Most exist with sideways inverted watermarks. On most values, they are common. As in your own post that seems to be from the SG Concise Catalogue, the bottom line identifies "sideways inverted" when GvR - or in your case - GviR reads top to bottom when seen from the front - i.e., the printed side - of the stamp. Clearly, from your picture, the GviR in the selvedge reads top to bottom and is oriented to the right: the crown points to the right.

At the back of the Concise is the Postage Dues section. At the beginning of the section is an explanation that mentions the orientation of the crown to identify the watermark.
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Edited by NSK - 11/21/2020 5:39 pm
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Posted 11/21/2020   5:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jony78 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

i get it now, so the sg number is D31wi, my concise is 2001 and has no listing for used, is that because they are common used?

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Posted 11/21/2020   6:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That might be the case. It might also just be a matter of not pricing the stamp for some other reason. SG Catalogues are price lists.

The SG Specialised Vol. 2, 12th Ed. (July 2005) does not price the stamp in used condition. Unmounted mint is 110 for the normal (sideways) and 130 for the (sideways) inverted stamp. That, normally, indicates the (sideways) inverted variety is not in much shorter supply in relation to demand than the normal one.
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Posted 11/21/2020   6:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jony78 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In the 2001 it has prices at 75 and 130 with the used normal at 13, at the front of the catalogue there is a note which says a dagger denotes that the item does not exist in that condition and a blank or dash that it exists or may exist but no market price is known.
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Posted 11/22/2020   04:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It always amuses me that Stanley Gibbons speaks of market prices. They tend to be the most expensive source. Other dealers then offer their items at a discount to that price. How that could be called a "market price" remains a mystery to me. Only some opportunists on eBay try to get a higher price.
Even at their own auctions, their estimates are far below their catalogue prices. If they would not, you would be better off buying from their stock and avoid the buyer premium. It raises the question what market sets the prices in their catalogues. Although I found that some high-quality classic material is now going above full SG-catalogue price.
Of course, they mostly have high-quality material. Often, you will not be able to buy items prices up to 50 in their catalogues from them, because they seem to have focused on premium items and sell basic sets.
My 2005 SG specialised lists all but the d and 2/6 values from this set with a sideways inverted watermark. All are priced in mint condition only. Most carry only a small premium to the basic stamp. Considering postage dues were affixed to items by the post office, I doubt they are common in mint condition but not in used condition.
I noticed most postage dues have considerably increased in price even since 2005. Interestingly, the mint prices in the 2005 SG specialised are up by 35 for the sideways watermark, unchanged for the sideways inverted watermark, both in unmounted mint condition, but down to 10 for the "normal" stamp in used condition.
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Posted 11/22/2020   08:29 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jony78 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
well after exhausting my google searches I've only managed to locate 2 used copies, one on eBay for a very reasonable 115 the other as vfu on bb stamps website for a princely sum of 295, so its either very rare used or taken advantage of because no price is listed,I've not found any further literature either.
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Posted 11/22/2020   08:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You might be on to something here. BB Stamps indeed lists it in vfu-condition at 295.
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Edited by NSK - 11/22/2020 08:52 am
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