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US Newspaper Stamps 3c And 36$

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 14 / Views: 425Next Topic  
Valued Member

Romania
323 Posts
Posted 11/22/2020   06:09 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add cupram to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Stamps found on a sales site (pictures without a good resolution). The only information: "Newspaper stamps / $ 36 rare stamp".
Can the 3c stamp be imperforate at the bottom? Could it be Scott # PR10 (gray black / thin hard paper)?
I found in Scott the information that PR54 also exists imperforate. I'm not sure the color is "brown rose" or "indian red" like PR77.
Thanks for any help.



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Valued Member
United States
73 Posts
Posted 11/22/2020   08:22 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ericjackson to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The $36 item appears to be a plate proof on card (in poor condition), not a stamp. The 3c stamp has a straight edge at the bottom. Regarding which Scott number the stamp is, it is near impossible to do so from a poor scan. The Newspaper stamps can be challenging enough when you have them in front of you.
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Valued Member
Romania
323 Posts
Posted 11/22/2020   1:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cupram to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi ericjackson,

I have no experience in US stamps. I try to read and understand the description of the stamps on this site.
Even if I had the stamps in front of my eyes, I don't think I can do it without the help of the members of this site.
Stamp 3c has 3 variants PR10 (thin white paper), PR34 (hard white paper) and PR58 (soft porous paper).
Since the drawing appears on the back of the stamp, I assumed it was "thin white paper".
Is my conclusion correct? or does the drawing appear on the back of the stamp on other types of paper?
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Valued Member
United States
73 Posts
Posted 11/22/2020   2:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ericjackson to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As I stated in my previous message, Newspaper stamps are a challenge to determine which Scott number a stamp is when you have the actual stamp in front of you. To do so from a low resolution scan is near impossible. To really learn the paper varieties on these stamps requires building a reference collection of the stamps for comparison purposes.

To make an assumption on what this stamp based on a poor scan is foolishness.

If you are looking to buy Newspaper stamps, you need to first learn something about them and then buy from a reputable seller who properly describes and will stand behind what he or she sells.



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Pillar Of The Community
United States
7233 Posts
Posted 11/22/2020   2:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I second that, they are very difficult to learn and impossible from a scan.
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Valued Member
Romania
323 Posts
Posted 11/22/2020   2:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cupram to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I buy stamps on the Romanian market where very few old US stamps appear and in general as curiosities, with an approximate description and with excessively high prices.
No chance to start collecting US stamps, but that doesn't discourage me from trying to learn about them (if I get answers to my questions).
I also know that if you don't have the stamps in front of you, it's hard to appreciate the paper. and the colors (the German stamps I collect convinced me of this)
Unfortunately, I often receive only this answer that does not help me at all.
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Posted 11/22/2020   3:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add redwoodrandy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Valued Member
Romania
323 Posts
Posted 11/22/2020   5:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cupram to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
redwoodrandy - Thank you for reminding me of this amazing resource which is "stampsmarter"
I read this article a few months ago.
However, I did not find the difference between "thin hard paper" from 1875 and "hard white paper" -Special printing of 1875 issue.
Only its thickness, are there dimensions?
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United States
59 Posts
Posted 11/22/2020   6:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Molokai to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If you have an interest in the N & P stamps, I recommend these books:

http://unicornhall.com/NewsPaperStamps/index.htm

The United States Specialist ran a series of articles by Blanchard from 1965-74 (on and off). Those would be available online to members of the society. I have built a fairly extensive biblio of everything I could find on the N & Ps - books, articles, links, catalogs. As Eric says - they can be very difficult but - IMHO - lotsa fun!
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Valued Member
United States
73 Posts
Posted 11/22/2020   6:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ericjackson to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
All the books are articles can be very helpful, but nothing replaces the experience of having the stamps in front of you to examine and sort by the various differences. Over time, you will learn what the various paper and color differences are and be able to assign them to the proper Scott catalogue numbers. Even so, you will still find stamps that defy categorization.

There are many different areas in philately that require actual study of the stamps to gain an understanding of them, the U.S. Newspaper stamps being one the most difficult to work with. The literature can be very helpful, but working with the stamps is when it begins to fall into place.
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United States
7233 Posts
Posted 11/22/2020   10:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
And even after years of experience in newspaper stamps, having a good reference collection is invaluable.
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Valued Member
Romania
323 Posts
Posted 11/24/2020   03:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cupram to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you all (especially Molokai for references to specialty books)
Three years ago, when I inherited a stamp collection, I started looking for information on the net. The first catalog I bought was an old Michel catalog specialized for Germany, which determined my decision to collect German stamps.
If I make a comparison between Michel (for Germany) and Scott specialized (for US) I notice that in Michel there is precise information (colors, thickness and structure of the paper) the colors / shades of the stamps (only with the help of Michel Color Guide) which helps a lot to collectors beginners in the decision to identify what to buy.
What is thin hard paper?
Not like structure, color, transparency / opacity or other characteristics that can only be identified after a long experience and a large collection for comparisons.
The thickness of the paper is a measurable characteristic that cannot be interpreted subjectively. Why doesn't Scott have this information?
Didn't anyone measure the thickness of the paper? or does it have big variations? but then why is it still called "thin hard paper?"
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United States
7233 Posts
Posted 11/24/2020   07:11 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It does have variations, the paper used in the 19th century was produced by multiple companies. The idea of "quality control" was just a dream. Experience is still the only way to learn the papers. That said, there is no question the the Scott catalog is not as comprehensive as it might be.
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Posted 11/24/2020   07:38 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would add that measuring the thickness of paper is also quite subjective. In my QA experience, very few people will come up with the same measurement even when using a micrometer. When you ask people to measure things in 1/1000 inch increments that are soft, they typically have a lot of trouble with a 'interference fit' in the micrometer; they either make it too tight or too loose and this translated into several thousands of an inch. The surface and texture also impacts the measurement as does the moisture content of the paper.

From the USDA research paper "EFFECTIVE THICKNESS OF PAPER: APPRAISAL AND FURTHER DEVELOPMENT"

Quote:
Paper properties dependent on thickness are likely to be substantially in error when thickness values are obtained with standard micrometers.


As an engineer I appreciate seeking a quantifiable approach, but I think the best practice is to build a reference collection and experience in working with papers.
Don
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Valued Member
Romania
323 Posts
Posted 11/25/2020   5:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cupram to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I also have the training of an engineer.
And I suspect that also the Germans who measured the paper of the stamps
in general the thickness is given on a range of 0.02mm (0.07-0.09mm)
Plate micrometers can be used instead of standard micrometers.
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