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Newfoundland Scott 44 And 48 – Possible New Perforations

 
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Posted 12/02/2020   1:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add wert to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I have been looking through a lot of Newfoundland stamps.
I came across about 5 stamps that in catalouges are assigned 12x12 perforations.Most of them are 12x12, but a few measure 12.25x12.25

Don't know if I should ship a couple off to VINCENT GRAVES GREENE PHILATELIC RESEARCH FOUNDATION for verification.

Below are the Scott 44 and 48 that I am talking about.
Think I should send them to VGG foundation..???

Robert


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Canada
164 Posts
Posted 12/02/2020   8:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Trodent to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hey Wert, I just checked my 35 copies of the 1 green stamp. I found 3 with the 12.25 perf.

22 copies of the 2 orange, I found 1 copy with the 12.25 perf.

Trodent.

ps, I checked #47 2 green cod, all perfed at 12.1

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Posted 12/03/2020   10:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for taking the time to check the perfs for me.
There are 3 more in the same perf range.

Hope it is enough to possibly be recognized as a new perf for catalouges to pick up on.

4 more Scott 51, 52, 56 and 59
Will post the others here as time goes on.

Thanks again.

Robert
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Posted 12/03/2020   7:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There are also many more perforation anomalies with Newfoundland stamps...I have been working with a gentleman at BNAPS with reference to NFLD perforations...The excel sheet I have has approx. 121 differences and approx. 84 possible round offs.

Here for your interest is just a few of other Provinces that have perforation anomalies.

Nova Scotia Scott 9
Catalouge 12x12
Actual 11.8x11.8

Nova Scotia Scott 11i
Catalouge 12x12
Actual 11.8x11.8

Nova Scotia Scott 12
Catalouge 12x12
Actual 11.8x11.8

Nova Scotia Scott 13
Catalouge 12x12
Actual 11.8x11.8

P.E.I. Scott 5i
Catalouge 12x12
Actual 12x11.8

Just saying.
Robert

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Canada
164 Posts
Posted 12/03/2020   8:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Trodent to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Since these Newfoundland Stamps are printed by the British North American Bank Note Co in Montreal AND some of the Canada Small Queens were also printed by British North American Bank Note Co in Montreal.

The logical solution would be, there must be multiple different perforations in the Newfoundland printings also. Since the Newfoundland 1 cent Prince of Wales and the 2 codfish stamps had multiple printings.

Trodent
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Posted 06/02/2021   2:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tommy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting post. Is there an update?
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Posted 06/02/2021   9:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add petermac to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I hope that John Walsh's tome of a catalogue has been checked...he has captured scores and scores of the many different perforations on multiple NF stamps. It's a wonder to behold, and invites one to go well beyond standard catalogue listings, if you've got the patience and desire. I keep teetering on the verge of delving past the Unitrade listings!
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Posted 06/02/2021   10:02 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As discussed in this thread, http://goscf.com/t/76973 stamps from the same plate can exhibit great dimensional variances. In my opinion these variances can be explained by the moisture content of the paper both at the time of production (proven by the dimensional variances) and during the time that stamp perforations are gauged today. I believe this is one of the reasons why perforations shown in catalogs are 'rounded off' and not gauged out to two or three decimal places.
Don
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Posted 06/02/2021   10:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Edited by jogil - 06/02/2021 10:06 pm
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Posted 06/03/2021   06:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add watermark to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with Don. Another factor should also be considered and that is temperature. The equipment used to print stamps and perforate them were not in climate controlled environments. After working in a laboratory environment doing quantitative and qualitative analysis with precise measurements, I know how important temperature and humidity become in precision measurements. We had to keep the lab within certain temperature and humidity limits at all times and records were kept for both on charts that recorded them 24 hours a day. The state inspectors came in twice a year to check our records and measuring apparatus and make sure we were meeting the standards required.

The above was not used at the printers or the manufacture of the machinery used in the production of stamps. The tolerances were probably not very strict so deviations can be expected.

Mike
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Posted 06/03/2021   10:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Have you checked the perforations using a Kiusalas Canada perforation gauge?

When wet printed stamps were made, the paper was wetted before printing and it was dried after printing.
Then after drying it was gummed and then dried again after gumming and before perforating.

When looking at perforation gauging, finding consistent and constant gauge readings is important in finding a difference that isn't just a one off flyspeck one.
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Edited by jogil - 06/03/2021 11:06 am
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Posted 06/04/2021   11:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamps101 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
petermac wrote: " I hope that John Walsh's tome of a catalogue has been checked...he has captured scores and scores of the many different perforations on multiple NF stamps." (Emphasis mine)

I think this is a key consideration that has been brought up several times before. The Unitrade catalogue is a specialized catalog for Canada et all and it touches on most major necessities for the average Canadian collector. It does so in an easy-to-use, clean and neat, and relatively concise manner. Unless there is a specific perf I should be looking for that is rare and valuable, rounded off numbers are good enough for me and I have no interest in Unitrade being quite cluttered with this stuff. Can you imagine if Unitrade handled all the Centennial varieties? It would look like someone crammed A through D of Britannica into a single book. No thanks.

I appreciate folks who flyspeck and hunt for varieties of all realms but I do not believe these should all be in the basic tabletop "specialized" country catalog. Canadian collectors have spent hours writing thorough BNAPS (and other) journal articles and books on extremely specialized topics within Canadian Philately and those should stay in those realms for folks who wish to dive head first into that area and focus on a particular study. Catalogs aiming to offer a basic window into the entire country need to draw the line somewhere. I have to give considerable props to the current and past editors of Unitrade as I think it is a fantastic product and one I use more than probably any other stamp resource I have (aside from the good ol tongs).

I hope to not sound rude with my post nor aiming to discourage hunting for varieties.. That is not my intent. I do wish to add my opinion on what I feel should remain as the essence of Unitrade and other similar catalogs and reference guides used by the average Canadian collector or any similar product for another country.

Just my two pennies.

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Posted 06/04/2021   11:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamps101 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The above said, if a new perf variety is discovered and proves to be of significance, then yes, it should (and probably would) be added. If that were the case.
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Posted 06/05/2021   1:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tommy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Stamps101,

Good discussion and I welcome candid viewpoints (hard to do on websites, without irking someone).

I sort of agree and disagree. There is a place for Unitrade, and I am aligned that it should not be expanded to the levels you reference. The overall forest not the trees

I also agree that BNAPS (I am a member) has extremely specialized topics, but not centralized or comprehensive (you need to search). Individual bark on trees

But--there is a space in between (the trees) where the information is centralized--and IMHO, this is NSSC (for Newfoundland only of course). The other positive to NSSC vs Unitrade is that it changes when new empirical evidence or data emerges, like on shades or issues. I can give you multiple examples of this gap with Unitrade. (And to drive the point home : I have been able to buy items at shows armed with NSSC data, where the dealer relied upon NSSC (ie, I have bought rare items that the dealer thought was common).

So to back to the original posting--new perforations data and information would be best in NSSC not Unitrade (or look at both).

To be clear, I use and rely upon Unitrade--it is indispensable in many ways and IMHO collectors should have it. Its like a University freshman year book on History. But if you study Newfoundland, you will need to go deeper and be more up to date, and the NSSC is that (eg, a history book for grad students).

With all due respect.
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Posted 06/05/2021   3:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamps101 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I was not aware of this resource - thank you for your post as that is good to know. I agree with you as well on the history book analogy. Unitrade is an excellent and critical guide for Canada on the whole and is also great for someone finding a specific area they may wish to dive deeper into. Another good example of this is re-entries. Unitrade touches on some, especially in issues such as the Admirals. If one wants to really dig into this, off to Ralph's site one goes. Years ago I did not even know about or understand re-entries and wouldn't have were it not for Unitrade. Now for that topic, I have my specific go-to.

Again, great post, tommy. Thanks again.
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