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Please Help To Identify This Cut-Out From A German (?) Stationery

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Pillar Of The Community
France
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Posted 12/20/2020   09:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add vayolene to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
It could be austrian too,but I don't find it anywhere.
I read "Post Couvert" and of course "drei kreuzer"
Before post there is K and ?
Maybe a local issue,or an essay ?
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Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
2987 Posts
Posted 12/20/2020   09:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi.. looks like the arms of Mecklenburg Schwerin
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Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
3044 Posts
Posted 12/20/2020   10:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That's a real puzzle!

It has the look of a south German envelope stamp with the combination of "Post-Couvert" and the value in kreuzer but I don't recognise it.

I don't see anything like it in the Michel postal stationery catalogue nor in the H&G listings for Austria.
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Nigel
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Posted 12/20/2020   11:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bookbndrbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Using a strong light from one side would make the details of the embossing more visible for a pic. This could help in identifying the location.
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Posted 12/20/2020   1:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add EMaxim to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Can't decipher the letter that comes after the "K" before "Post," but by itself that "K" would have to mean either königliche or kaiserliche, no? And that plus the use of currency in Kreuzer would have to mean either Bavaria or Austria, no?

Here's an image of a coin from Lombardy-Venetia that shows a coat of arms that could be the one from the OP. But that wouldn't account for the currency in Kreuzer, would it?

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Posted 12/20/2020   1:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add EMaxim to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here from Bavaria is a somewhat better match for the coat of arms.
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France, Metropolitan
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Posted 12/20/2020   2:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
EMaxim. I think it is Bavaria.The shape of the crown and the shield looks the same as in your last coin.inside the shield looks the same....
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Posted 12/20/2020   2:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi EMaxim,

I guess the "K..." could be "Ku..." so perhaps "Kurfürstlich" (i.e. "electoral" as in Prince-elector)?

However, I can't think of a likely candidate with a territory that used kreuzers.

The arms could be those of Bavaria with the lion in the fourth quarter and Bavaria had been an electorate so maybe an old-fashioned style?

I see the first envelopes from Bavaria used a stamp with the spelling "Drey Kreuzer".

The Kingdom of Württemberg would be another possibility but the arms wouldn't work.

I like the idea of this being an essay.
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Nigel
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Posted 12/20/2020   2:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I see we've all been thinking about Bavaria!

It's a fascinating item vayolene. Thanks for sharing it with us.

I'm off now to start my online German lesson...
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Nigel
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France, Metropolitan
2987 Posts
Posted 12/20/2020   2:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A close up on The Bavaria shield.

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Posted 12/20/2020   3:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add EMaxim to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The other "u"s on the stamp all appear to have vertical arms of the same length. There could be periods (stops) after both the "K" and the letter(s?) that follow. If so, the inscription might read "Royal [something] Post" (Bavaria was kingdom). But what sort of post? Can't make out what follows the "K." Am studying now the various Fraktur alphabets that can be found online. Nothing so far.
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Posted 12/20/2020   4:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Is it possible to get a somewhat better picture of the original piece?

Peter
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France, Metropolitan
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Posted 12/20/2020   4:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think after the K there is a b (Konigreich bayern).
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Posted 12/20/2020   5:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That sounds right perf12.
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Nigel
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Posted 12/20/2020   5:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bookbndrbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The lower case "b" for Bayern is interesting. It doesn't appear on any Bavarian stamp or postal stationery of which I am aware.
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Posted 12/20/2020   6:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add EMaxim to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Agree with both Perf12 and bookbndrbob. Here's a link to one version of the Fraktur alphabet, wherein you can see that the lower case "b" looks pretty good. https://omniglot.com/writing/fraktur.htm


The fourth letter in the first word: How does it compare?
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Edited by EMaxim - 12/20/2020 6:21 pm
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