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Unitrade 30B Large Queen - Perforation.

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Posted 01/03/2021   2:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add wert to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I was looking at my Unitrade 30b { blue/grey } stamp.
Catalouges assign perforations of Scott 30 stamps as follows....
1 12 x 12
2 11.5 x 12

Here is some new information with reguards to Large Queens.
Got this information from a well known expert {keeping his name silent}



My Unitrade 3b seems to have a perforation of 12.2 x 12.2
Any one out there that can find another one..Would be appreciated.




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Posted 01/03/2021   6:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add archerg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The 12.2 x 12.2 (ish) perf is not limited to the 30b, the blue, slate, purple and violet shade variants printed circa 1890 can all be found 12.2.
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Posted 01/03/2021   7:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Good info archerg...Thanks

Found out also the late red/violet of 1895 have 12.2 x 12.2
Should these 12.2 x 12.2 perforations be added to Catalouges..???

Robert



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Edited by wert - 01/03/2021 7:18 pm
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Posted 01/03/2021   8:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add archerg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I just call them 12+, and prefer to group unless the difference in perf rate exceeds 0.5. The error bars associated with perf rate are wider than most think.

That is only my personal take on the matter. To those who wish to subdivide, I would not convince you otherwise so have fun.
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Posted 01/04/2021   2:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Have you checked this on the Canada Kiusalas perforation gauge?
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Posted 01/04/2021   2:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Have you checked this on the Canada Kiusalas perforation gauge?


Sorry Jogil...Don't own one...sad

Robert
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Posted 01/04/2021   6:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Edited by jogil - 01/05/2021 06:42 am
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Posted 01/04/2021   9:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add UnitradeEditor to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Correction...

This is not Unitrade 30b, it is Scott 30b.

Scott assigned the variety number, not Unitrade.

Very frustrating to have to make this kind of correction, again.

Robin Harris
Editor, Unitrade Specialized Catalogue of Canadian Stamps
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Posted 01/04/2021   9:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Robin

Let me ask you some thing...A couple of times I used a Scott number and you got mad and said it was a Unitrade number..Ok...I understand.

I see Scott assigned 30..30a..30b...and 30c
My mistake..??

All the rest of the numbers are Unitrade numbers.
I have a Scott Catalouge and see the numbers.

Now, if a new collector comes on and posts a Scott 3e ..Are you going to be annoyed with him as you are always with me..??

For a new collector to accurately post a Unitrade or a Scott number, he/she would have to have a Scott Catalouge..Right..??
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Posted 01/04/2021   10:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add UnitradeEditor to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Robert:

It doesn't matter who wrote the number.

One does not need a Scott catalogue ... just read the Introduction to the Unitrade catalogue. Page 13 talks about "Item Numbering". This is very basic, for the proper use of the catalogue and passing along catalogue numbers to other collectors and dealers.

Based on questions that I receive, very few people take the time to read the introduction to the catalogue.

Robin
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Posted 01/04/2021   10:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Understood Robin.

Sorry for the aggravation..Will try better next time.

Robert
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Posted 01/05/2021   06:37 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For all early Canada stamp collectors who don't have a Canada Kiusalas perforation gauge and would like to get one, it is suggested that you buy one as soon as possible before they run out like the U.S. Kiusalas perforation gauge did. These gauges were made in 1965 so that their supply is limited after 55 years. See:

https://www.csdastampauctions.com/l...-gauge/44038

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Edited by jogil - 01/05/2021 06:54 am
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Posted 01/05/2021   09:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hey Jogil

You have always pushed for the use of a Canada Kiusalas perforation gauge..I use a "Ideal Gauge USA" and a couple of "Perfect Gauge - Unitrade Associates"

Can some one explain why the Kiusalas is better for perforation measurements...???

Robert
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Posted 01/05/2021   11:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
wert: The Canada Kiusalas gauge has different numbers that relate to the distance in thousandths of an inch between perforating pins. This helps to sort out different early line perforated stamps and stamp issues from each other.

I found the following information online:

Kiusalas Canadian Specialist Perforation Gauge - the ONLY Gauge that CORRECTLY measures ALL Canadian Perfs!

Perforations were first measured in Europe and the European method of using millimetres was of course utilized. In the case of Canadian stamps, this is ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT!

An article by George B. Arfken in the January 1992 Maple Leaves introduced Canadian collectors to the Kiusalas Canadian Perforation Gauge, the ONLY perforation gauge EVER developed to correctly measure the perforations on ALL Canadian stamps - particularly important for the early Large and Small Queens and the Registered Letter stamps.

Perforation Gauges sold around the world all measure perforation as the number of perforation holes per TWO CENTIMETRES. As Arfken pointed out in his article, this doesn't work for 19th century stamps. Despite what one reads in catalogues, handbooks and journal articles, these stamps were NOT perforated 12. Some were perforated 12.1, some 11.9, but NOT 12. Nor were these stamps perforated 11-1/2. Some were perforated 11.6 but NOT 11.5. The 12.1 and 11.9 perforation stamps were printed by TWO DIFFERENT perforating machines!

For 19th-century Canadian stamps, the traditional two-centimetre scale (Gibbons, White Ace, Harris, Scott, etc) has NO rational basis. 19th-century Canadian machinists did NOT use centimetres, they used inches! These machinists did not lay out holes per two centimetres; they measured centre-to-centre distances in thousands of an inch.

In 1965, Richard Kiusalas, a machinist by trade, developed a different Canadian perforation scale. He uses numbers based on thousandths of an inch (eg. 63 thousandths of an inch or 63). Table 1 (below) lists the equivalents for the Kiusalas scale and the traditional metric numbers for large and Small Queens and Registered stamps (1st number is Kiusalas number and 2nd number is the metric scale):

Table 1: 63=12.50; 64=12.30; 65=12.11; 66=11.93; 67=11.75; 68=11.58

A rare 10c Small Queen is shown in the picture above. The perf is 63 on the Kiusalas scale or 12.5 on the traditional scale . Perf 12 alone is measured from 63 to 67 on the Kiusalas Scale! The 6c small queen #39 and 39d are both identified as perf 12x12 but the Unitrade catalogue separates them by Kiusalas: #39 measures 65 but #39d measures 66 on Kiusalas scale.

Check out the Large and Small Queen Identification Table in the Unitrade Canada Catalogue and you will see the Kiusalas measurements for each stamp. The diffences in $ when you can accurately identify the perforation is staggering!

Every perforating machine used in Canada has had the pins which do the perforations spaced in thousands of an inch - NOT IN MILLIMETRES! As this was the basis on which perforation equipment was designed, it is the ONLY true way that perforations can be measured and classified.
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Edited by jogil - 01/05/2021 11:33 am
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Posted 01/05/2021   11:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Robert, I hope you understand it - I still do not. I also do not understand the difference between the Canadian and the US Kiusalas scales
By the way, I only collect US Transportation Coils. The only perforation varieties are the imperforates - no need for a gauge here,

Peter
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Edited by Petert4522 - 01/05/2021 11:17 am
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Posted 01/05/2021   12:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
For 19th-century Canadian stamps, the traditional two-centimetre scale (Gibbons, White Ace, Harris, Scott, etc) has NO rational basis. 19th-century Canadian machinists did NOT use centimetres, they used inches! These machinists did not lay out holes per two centimetres; they measured centre-to-centre distances in thousands of an inch.


NOW that makes sense Jogil...I should have recognized that Metrics were not around then...We went metric in 1970...so yes I now understand...Measuring pre 1970 stamps with metrics is not the way to go...Thanks for the info Jogil.

Will have to get one.

Robert
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