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Shenanigans At Kelliher?

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Posted 01/19/2021   12:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add stallzer to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
So this last weekend Kelliher had sale #XXX. There was a 1851 1 Franklin from Plate 1L with an imprint capture that I really wanted since these don't come up for sale that often. So I placed a bid and soon got into a small bidding war with another buyer. I had my mind set on it so I kept upping my bid until the sale ended which showed I was high bidder.

Fast forward a few days and I get an email from Kelliher with my invoice and only 1 lot on it, not the imprint capture but another lot I won. I emailed them to find out why the imprint capture lot wasn't on the invoice and was told that the lot had been "Hampered" at $25 above my bid.

My response was that it would have been nice to know that because I would have happily paid the extra $25 for that item and asked if it was still for sale at the $25 above my bid price.

They responded that the stamp had been sold at the auction and no longer available. What kind of garbage is this?
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Posted 01/19/2021   1:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rich60 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Not familiar with the term "Hampered". That stinks - sorry to hear that.
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Posted 01/19/2021   1:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Since it was not a "live" auction you do not know what the book bids were. You only saw what was happening on SAN.
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Posted 01/19/2021   1:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jamesg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm sure they meant hammered, meaning the hammer price was $25 above your bid. Hammer price is the final bid when the auctioneer "brings down the hammer" to close the bidding.
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Posted 01/19/2021   1:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Not sure I agree with that. When I was outbid I received a notification and ended up in a mini bidding war which saw my original bid increase over $110. So why would they be handling 2 different sets of bids and not updating ? If I was indeed the high bid and there was a reserve on the item I should have had first right of refusal on the additional cost.
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Posted 01/19/2021   1:40 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What platform were you bidding on?

I had an incident during the most recent Rumsey auction on SAN, where the software showed me as the winning bidder (and my amount in green rather than in red) yet I heard them audibly award the lot to someone else at the same dollar amount. It showed me as the winner both within the session and in my account on SAN. I contacted the floor, they said "too bad". I then called them and rather adamantly pleaded my case, and sent them screenshots during the live session proving my case and they agreed to contact the winning bidder and reopen the lot. I ultimately ended up losing the lot, but at a much higher level.

This could be one of the reasons why Siegel decided to go their own way with an online auction platform... too many technical problems with SAN or its integration with other platforms.
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Edited by revenuecollector - 01/19/2021 1:41 pm
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Posted 01/19/2021   2:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Inkmanno1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If it's the Kelleher "Internet" auctions that end at 9:00pm on Sundays, they have book, mail and phone bids not seen on SAN. They must tally them afterwards as I've had the same experience where my bid was green and high bid at 9 sun nite but was outbid by a mail bid. Kinda funky way to do it but then again I won 3 this past Sunday for under my max bids so seems legit.
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Posted 01/19/2021   2:11 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think Inkman is pointing out the correct mechanics. Unlike a live auction or an automated auction like eBay, these auctions are closer to a mail-in style auction. You have to bid your top bid and trust that the auctioneer is handling the bids ethically. On SAN you are only seeing your bids against other SAN bidders.
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Posted 01/19/2021   2:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the explanation. I was using SAN and it was their Sunday night sale. Didn't know they set themselves up to fail (sounds that way trying to mange 3 platforms) I guess I won't send the "How disappointed I am" email :) I used SAN because I don't like Kelleher's interface.
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Posted 01/19/2021   3:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What I said six posts up. LOL
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Posted 01/19/2021   4:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Unlike a live auction or an automated auction like eBay, these auctions are closer to a mail-in style auction. You have to bid your top bid and trust that the auctioneer is handling the bids ethically. On SAN you are only seeing your bids against other SAN bidders.


Surely this must be outlined in some sort of preamble to the auction.

I once won a bid from another auctioneer I support, and was sold to another bidder.
What magnified my irritation, my emails remained unanswered.

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Posted 01/19/2021   4:25 pm  Show Profile Check docgfd's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add docgfd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Auctions I've followed on SAN always announce bids along the lines of "selling to the book at $___." Aren't the auction houses supposed to tally all their mail bids prior to the auction going live, with live bidding being the bottom line for what lots are hammered down at?

I've bid against 'the book' as well as live phone bidders during plenty of auctions and have never heard of something like this happening. Something's smelling of fish here...

Edited to add: "bidding war" in the OP is what threw me originally...see now this wasn't live auction bidding.
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Edited by docgfd - 01/20/2021 02:39 am
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Posted 01/19/2021   4:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gmot to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, I've had this happen a couple times with other auction houses with these non-live online auctions. This happened so often with Eastern I no longer bid with them on these. You go to bed happy you won the lot, wake up and find you haven't. Although sometimes that's a good thing...
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Posted 01/19/2021   4:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It was not a live auction.

Reading the SAN Help page might help folks to understand how this works:

https://stampauctionnetwork.com/Wel...cfm#OverView
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Edited by rogdcam - 01/19/2021 4:35 pm
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Posted 01/19/2021   5:02 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
These auctions have been going on for years. There is always a difference between a live auction and one that isn't live. There are many non-live auctions that show up on SAN. Kelleher is just one of the firms that use that. It's the "Michael Rogers Online" part of Kelleher that does these weekly. Kelleher auctions done directly by the main unit - Kelleher in Danbury - have generally always been live auctions.
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Posted 01/19/2021   6:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Reading the SAN Help page might help folks to understand how this works:


Actually it really doesn't. I can't understand how they are not able to reflect the "actual" price of what the high bid is at any certain point.

Calling their Sunday night event a sale is just wrong. A sale has a price and if you want it you pay the displayed price. If you place a dollar amount on an item and another person places a higher dollar amount on the same item it is an auction plain and simple.

Looking at the realized price for the item it actually hammered for $75 above my bid. This should have been shown on SAN. Either show ALL the information or show none, those should be the only 2 options and I believe they hurt themselves and could probably have squeezed a few more $$$ out of each item.
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