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Help With Indonesia Scott 387-400 Djakarta Vs Enschede Printings

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Posted 02/03/2021   6:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Stamps4Life to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Does anyone have some of the lower rupiah values in both printings they can put up? Id like to see the difference as im having trouble sorting some I have. I think I can tell the difference is shading but the paper and numerals are getting me - numerals especially. Tks much
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Posted 02/03/2021   6:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Are all values in Rupiah printed by both ?
I have never noticed any difference.
Scott seems ambiguous in the notes.
Looking at my duplicates, I certainly cannot see any difference in numerals. There are shades around Mr. Sukarno's vignette.

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Posted 02/03/2021   7:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stamps4Life to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
this thread https://stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9455
does a nice job pointing out the differences in the numeral size but maybe all the ones I have are the same printing. I cant seem to get there.
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Posted 02/03/2021   7:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
OK Here you go,
download each image, then using the mouse wheel, toggle between images.
You can see the left numeral move, (in relation to the Chevron above it) and the two different "screens"

I still don't know which is which, disagree with Scott re the numeral sizes.
The locations and screens are the better ideal.

Once again donated my duplicates, unaware there were 2 printings.


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Edited by rod222 - 02/03/2021 8:00 pm
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Posted 02/03/2021   9:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add shermae to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rod- strong shade difference between your 2 examples.
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Posted 02/03/2021   10:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stamps4Life to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
yep. nice tks here are 2 from the 100 or so I have. hard to tell the no. difference. but shading is nice. not going to kill myself over these as I have no way to tell the price difference either - just for fun as I dont do it for the $ and im sure its not going to be 100.00 + .25 haha.

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Posted 02/03/2021   11:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
just for fun as I dont do it for the $


Good,
if you were, I wouldn't be answering your questions.

I get tired of collectors whom only dream of making money in Philately.

Now look at your 2 examples of the 1r50
Note the difference in the gap of the last "A" in INDONESIA
The distance between the "A" and the border chevron, differs.
That's how to catalogue that value.

Good hunting.
I learnt something today.

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Posted 02/03/2021   11:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Rod- strong shade difference between your 2 examples.


Indeed Shermae,
esp in the scans.
On the Album page, very hard to segregate with colour.

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Posted 02/03/2021   11:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stamps4Life to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
tks rod. ill have to go by shade on these. I see a difference in the font of the A, that's about it. I only dream of things that have a slight chance of coming true. and $ in philately aint one of them.
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Posted 02/04/2021   02:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't have pairs except for 15R that was covered in the link. For what it's worth:


1.25R thicker paper (Enschede)

2R thinner paper. I can't tell any difference in the numeral with the Enschede print shown in the link. There may be one of the other type differences noted.

2.5R thinner paper

3R thicker paper

5R thicker paper

6R thicker paper

10R thinner paper, but looks like an Enschede to me. But see below.

Try the direction of printing method mentioned at SB which is not well explained. There are very slight blurs along the edges in the direction of travel through the press. The edges of the opposite sides should be very sharp. So Enschede: blurs left/right, Djakarta/Kebajoran blurs top/bottom. My 10R then is a Kebajoran printing by this method, matching the paper type. The blurring matches the paper type on the others I have shown here.

That there are two halftone screens for the Djakarta/Kebajoran, I find interesting. I'll have to see if I can find my halftone gauge, a (cheap) overlay that works fast. EDIT: Hmm. I'll bet that halftone screen measurement is different in metric.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 02/04/2021 02:27 am
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Posted 02/04/2021   09:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stamps4Life to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Tks much HB. Appreciate all the scans. 1st time hearing of a half tone gauge. Quickly looked one up but looked like for newspaper printing. Have to look more into that...... I think the thicker paper is the route to go and shading. But as you mentioned , I think, there seem to be thinner paper ones with less contrast.....
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Posted 02/04/2021   4:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stamps4Life to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
And the fun continues....

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Posted 02/04/2021   5:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The gauge that seems to be sold in many places is the one I have/had/can't find for the moment is called a halftone determiner, also used to figure the cloth mesh fineness for screen printing. Unfortunately I see it only goes up to 78 lines/cm (metric) where I thought US 200 lines/in might be fine enough for 80 lines/cm. So the gauge probably won't work for that. Because the way it works is that you just move your item across the scale until you get a star pattern and the star indicates the number of lines exactly.
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Posted 02/04/2021   5:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stamps4Life to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Posted 02/04/2021   6:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, that's the scale the other one has. But again, this is in inches and not metric.
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Posted 10/07/2022   06:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Bump.

Stamps4Life didn't mention the higher values and I assume those got figured out. But here is the comparison of numerals for the 15r and 20r values:

The Enschede printings are the bottom/front examples, confirmed (I think) by the direction of printing method mentioned previously. If anyone's wondering why a US machine cancel is on the top 20r, it was on a diplomatic pouch cover cancelled upon arrival in the US (probably at Washington DC).

I cannot see a difference with the top inscriptions for the 2r value. So, again using the direction of printing method, I believe the bottom stamp is the Enschede print. Just like the two 1.50 brown values shown earlier, there is a difference in the bottom inscription. Here, for the Enschede, the bottom point of the right leg of the second "N" of "INDONESIA" does not point to the point of the "wave". Barely. The second "I" is also in a different spot vs. the top (Djarkarta) stamp.


I don't have very many of these, but there doesn't seem to be much of a difference with other factors. Paper is generally thicker than expected, and thick and thin/not as thick are quite close enough to each other, especially with used stamps. Shading/shadowing - forget it, it's photogravure and there is enough variability in the printed results and print quality.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 10/07/2022 06:47 am
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