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Opinions Needed - Germany/Soviet Zone Monetary Reform Overprints

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Posted 02/07/2021   11:20 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Rich60 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Need some help/opinions on these items. I know the rabbit hole is deep on these and I usually avoid these because of the many forgeries unless they are already expertized.

These are from a large holding that I got and keeps giving up surprises.
These are 3 Berlin-Blankenburg overprints and my initial feeling is that they are fakes/forgeries.

I am looking for opinions, constructive comments, comparisons, and any additional ID points I may be missing from anyone that has more experience with these. Eventually if I think they have a shot at being original I will get them expertized.



Thanks
Rich
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Posted 02/07/2021   12:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This PDF is a great source of information regarding these overprints starting on page 67:

http://www.germanyphilatelicsociety.../history.pdf

An excerpt from the PDF:

Although post offices were instructed to use only pfennig values of the second Control Council issue for overprinting, many other issues were also overprinted because of shortages of certain values and over zealous improvisation by the midnight over printers. Stamps frequently overprinted were the first Control Council issue, the Mark values of the second Control Council issue, the von Stephens, Hannover Fair and even several postal stationary items. By diligent searching one can even find several of the various Leipzig Fair stamps overprinted, but these are very difficult to get expertised. The hand overprints are an interesting field for specialized collecting. Most collectors will specialize in a particular district. Districts 27 and 36 are probably the most popular.
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Posted 02/07/2021   12:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Forgeries , your lettering is too thick to the originals .Overprint should be much finer .
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Posted 02/07/2021   1:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Floortrader - Can you provide some examples because I do not see what you are talking about at all?

Thank You
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Posted 02/07/2021   1:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a certified example of the overprint:



https://www.stampcircuit.com/stamp-...bz-handstamp
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Posted 02/07/2021   1:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Germania to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
floor trader is showing a stamp from District 16; yours is from District 3. According to the Michel listings District 3 Berlin-Blankenburg forgeries were created in huge quantities. Even if the stamps have an old expertization (say, more than 5 or 10 years old) they need to be re-expertized.
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Posted 02/07/2021   1:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add danstamps54 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rich,

My avatar is an overprint. It is most likely philatelic or forged. I've always assumed my set to be inauthentic. My German collector-friend who specializes in Soviet Occupied Germany says very few overprints get a clean BPP certification. It would be a long shot for yours, but who knows?

Rod, Thank you for the link. It will make a good read. In skimming through the article, I did notice one minor error. On page 19 they refer to the "Noyta" stamp. They misinterpreted the Cyrillic letters. It should be "Potschta"

Dan


edit: corrected spelling
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Edited by danstamps54 - 02/07/2021 2:18 pm
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Posted 02/07/2021   2:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gmot to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Coincidentally, was just looking at my small collection of these handstamps (bezirk) - of the roughly 20 I have, only one looks potentially genuine to my eyes. From what I've read, sounds like that ratio of fake:real is typical for these handstamps.

One of mine -

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Posted 02/07/2021   2:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
floor trader is showing a stamp from District 16;


Where?
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Posted 02/07/2021   2:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add danstamps54 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
gmot,

3 Berlin 34 was heavily counterfeited. More than a visual examination is necessary to determine an authentic overprint. Because the overprints were valid for such a short time, postal workers would make "favor" overprints for collectors after the period. It is my understanding that BPP actually has to check the ink used to determine authenticity.

This is from the English version of Michel Specialized:

"Due to the relatively primitive production conditions, numerous counterfeits began appearing while the stamps were valid. In addition to that such [counterfeit] overprints were illegally produced after July 2, 1948 when the official production period concluded, to some extent while the real overprints were valid, and later. The counterfeits were produced by postal employees to a very great extent as favors or for personal gain." p.350

Dan
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Experienced stamps need a home too. I'd rather have an example that is imperfect than no example.
I collect for enjoyment, not investment.
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Posted 02/07/2021   3:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
same question ----Where am I showing WHAT ? Have problems what others are saying on this board .I didn't show anything .


Sorry my eye sight is for sh** ,had surgery Tuesday ,it was like they where digging in my brain ....too many kicks and punchs in the head over 48 years .

We are starting up BARE NUCKLE FIGHTING exhibts in Florida ,and hope to go national .

ON THE SUBJECT of these stamps and overprints ,here is some of my stuff .


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Posted 02/07/2021   3:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add danstamps54 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
floortrader,

I'm not sure the Michel catalog agrees with you. This is from p. 352 of the Specialized catalog: (Underlining is mine)

"During the production process certain variations in the overprints became quite numerous. Differences in overprint placement, ink variation, darker, messy, fainter or incomplete overprints should not be regarded as varieties or as more valuable since they are not consistently repeated so they cannot be cataloged".
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Experienced stamps need a home too. I'd rather have an example that is imperfect than no example.
I collect for enjoyment, not investment.
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Edited by danstamps54 - 02/07/2021 3:24 pm
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Posted 02/07/2021   4:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
DANSTAMPS 54 -----You can't have it both ways ,your posting just above my scan says one thing and your posting just below my scan ,says just the opposite . which is it ?
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Posted 02/07/2021   4:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It just seems like this is one of those things that has no resolution by it's very nature. There are infinite variables.
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Posted 02/07/2021   5:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add danstamps54 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Floortrader,

Maybe I'm a little slow today but I don't see the contradiction. Perhaps you can clarify your comment for me. I was using Michel catalog wording.

The point I was attempting to make is that a visual examination alone can't determine authenticity. There are numerous fakes and forgeries, many made by postal workers after the overprints were no longer valid, for favors and $$. It is necessary to use more subtle techniques such as an ink analysis to make a proper certification that the overprint was made during the time the stamps were valid. That is why my friend who specializes in SBZ says it is difficult to get a clean cert from BPP.

I was also pointing out that, according to Michel, because of the hurried production, the fineness of the lettering or the position of the overprint and other visual cues we collectors typically use aren't definitive either. The overprints got messy.

It's one of those areas in German philately where even specialized collectors throw up their hands.

Dan
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Experienced stamps need a home too. I'd rather have an example that is imperfect than no example.
I collect for enjoyment, not investment.
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Edited by danstamps54 - 02/07/2021 6:23 pm
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Posted 02/07/2021   5:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Dan ----I am a worldwide collector , I try not to get into any stamps to deep .My goal is to have a decent worldwide collection .
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