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Seeking Information On Switzerland 1939 Stadt Post Basel

 
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Posted 02/20/2021   11:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Timm to your friends list Get a Link to this Message



Seeking information about this block

Thank you
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Posted 02/20/2021   12:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It looks like a private label for the mobilization on the border by the military 1939 -1945 . Maybe made by a military unit listed as a soldier stamp .
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Posted 02/24/2021   12:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Timm to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Switzerland is a popular country
I thought there would be an expert out there somewhere.
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Valued Member
United States
344 Posts
Posted 02/24/2021   12:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Linus to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I am no expert, but your sheet of stamps has BAT 179 on it.

Read the info in this link, and look for the word BAT and a number after it on the stamps shown in this link.

https://www.stampcommunity.org/topi...&whichpage=1

Also go to eBay/stamps and search: BAT 179
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Edited by Linus - 02/24/2021 01:34 am
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Posted 02/25/2021   11:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Timm to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for the information
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344 Posts
Posted 02/25/2021   1:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Linus to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You are welcome. I use eBay/stamps as a reference book, sometimes it surprises you what information is out there on it. I will cut and paste the info below for Rod, and others, to save.

Linus

(info below from an eBay listing)...

Note: All prices based on "Die Soldatenmarken der Schweiz" 1990 Katalog, published by Heinrich Sulser (the only recognized catalogue of Swiss Soldier Stamps)

Military "Soldier" Stamps

During each World War, the Swiss military mobilized to ensure that Switzerland would not become one of the participants. Since Swiss military service is compulsory for all men between the ages of 18 and 48, this inevitably created financial hardship for many of those called up for active duty. During each war, individual military units issued fundraising labels that could be placed on mail to indicate charitable support. Since those on active duty enjoyed free-franking privileges, they often placed these military stamps on their mail in lieu of regular postage. These stamps were duly cancelled by the field post offices. Different parts of a unit sometimes had their own stamps.

From Sulser Catlogue:
The soldier-stamps were not issued by the swiss-mail (PTT) but by the individual units. They were not allowed for non field-post pieces but they were authorized by the PTT. The designs had to be presented to PTT general administartion at Bern for approval (Armyorder Nr.102 from 16.12.1939). They were classified as charity stamps.
Armeebefehl Nr. 102 was issued:
1. Every unit may only issue one stamp until 1.9.1940, no variations and only one printrun!
2. All future designs shall be presented to the PTT directorate at Bern for approval.
Later on this order where supplemented with more rules to follow:
Armeebefehl Nr. 125 (26.4.40) changed the right of approval from PTT to the Generaladjutant of the Army's office.
Most remarkable are the later paragraphs of this order:
4.The printers which are printing the stamps are to be bound by contract with penalty clause to take care that no stamps are sold from the printers-stock. All essais and printing error's are to be destroyed at the spot and are forbidden to be brought into circulation.
5. printing plates shall be handed out to the commander of the issuing unit or be destroyed under personal observation of the units commander.
Armeebefehl Nr. 159 (28.1040)
Term definition for the no-variations rule from army order 102.
1. Each army unit down to Bat. and Abt. may issue one stamp per year of mobilization (timespan from 1.9. –31.8.). Only one single stamp in one printrun without any variations in colour, paper, perforation, text, picture (i.e. tête-bêche), gum, souvenier sheets, mini-sheets of 1,2,3,4 or more stamps or any other variation.
2. Only perforated blocks of 4 with plain white margin, without any aditional printings are not counted as a variation and are allowed even if singles of this stamps are issued .
3. Generaly overprints are not allowed. Only if a issuing unit has a large stock of last years stamps, it may be allowed by the Generaladjutant of the Army's office to overprint them as the stamp for the new year.

But not only the high command issued orders on the soldiers-stamps. Also the Fieldpostdirectorate had some important ruels on soldiers-stamps.
Order Nr. 10 (5.10.39)
The military charity stamps may be canceld with the troops standard cachet BUT NOT by the dated cancels of the fieldpost offices.

Oder Nr. 12 (24.10.39)
The military charity stamps are to be designed in size that a confusion with PTT stamps is not possible. Also no value is allowed to be printed on the stamps.
Collectors have to use an additional PTT franking on their letters.
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Valued Member
Switzerland
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Posted 02/26/2021   09:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add adischaub to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Timm - as a citizen of Basel and soldier of the Swiss army allow me to shed some more light on this. As indicated above the stamp is from WW2 and can be found under No 357 in Markus Wittwer, Die schweizerischen Soldatenmarken, 2. Weltkrieg 1939-1945 (which is imho the more relevant catralogue than Sulser). In Switzerland we have only one army but underneath there are federal troups (as e.g. the air force or air defense) which contains soldiers of all the 26 cantons and cantonal troups (which contain soldiers of one canton only). The stamp above is from the Territorial Füsilier Bataillon 179 which is a cantonal troup of Basel-Stadt. I have a postcard franked with the very same stamp sent to my grandpa whilst he served in WW2 - see pic below. Obviously it is a reference to the "Basel Dove", the first three coloured stamp of the world that appeared in 1845. Best, A
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Edited by adischaub - 02/26/2021 09:30 am
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Posted 02/26/2021   09:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Timm: I thought there would be an expert out there somewhere.

Well, with a bit of patience you found one! Great, and thank you to adischaub and his grandpa!


Peter
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Posted 02/28/2021   07:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
ADISCHAUB -----Thanks for showing your Grandfather's post card . This is one area that I don't collect .

My statement above called the original posted picture a private issue because it is a different stamp than the one on the card you posted . It looks to me more like a souvenir sheet than a stamp . Since each unit only issued one stamp why do we have here two different stamps in design . What does your catalog say ?
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Posted 02/28/2021   08:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Apparently there was a great deal of issuing "enthusiasm" in order to accommodate philatelists prior to Armeebefehl Nr. 102 ( see Linus post above with Sulser excerpt) which was published to try and tamp down on said enthusiasm.

https://www.feldgrau.net/forum/view....php?t=13403

Now what do we have: A lable with a charity surcharge (to the zero posting cost for fieldpost) authorized for use on fieldpost by the swiss mail, with military motives and tied to a specific unit.
If you where a stamp dealer, what would you do? The swiss stamp dealers did, and the stamps sold extremly well.

To come a little closer to the topic of this forum we now move on to 1939.

From Sulzer Catlogue:

The soldier-stamps where not issued by the swiss-mail (PTT) but by the individual units. They where not alowed for non field-post pieces. But they where authorized by the PTT. The designs had to be presented to PTT general administartion at Bern for approval (Armyorder Nr.102 from 16.12.1939). They where classified as charity stamps.

After full mobilization in Sept. 1939 several units began instanly to issue soldiers-stamps. Some used stocks of WWI soldiers-stamps with overprints.
As you see the above mentioned armyorder Nr.102 (parts of it to follow) was not in effect for more than 2 month to come...
What would you do, as a philatelist, with the official approval to print your own stamps???

Especialy noticeable are the philiatlistic excesses of Füs.Kp. I/5, Ter.Füs.Kp.5 and Ter.Füs.Kp II/127. Each of them issued 6-8 stamps during this „wild issuing" period. Ter.Füs.Kp. II/129 even manged to issue 13 stamps with each also available as a souvenir sheet and Ter.Mitr.Kp. IV/195 with 20 issues...
The stamp-dealers where severly alarmed by this inflatinary issuing practice.

The whole concept of soldiers-stamps got into trouble.

The Swiss-Army high command had to act. And so Armeebefehl Nr. 102 was issued:

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Valued Member
Switzerland
7 Posts
Posted 02/28/2021   09:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add adischaub to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Floortrader
there had beeen sheets with 24 individual stamps (sheet 6x4) from which "my" stamp stems and sheets with 6 blocks à 4 stamps and a common header (the one of Timm). You can distuingish them by the (lack of) inscription. Best regards, Adrian PS. See below a screen shot of the Wittwer catalogue for details.
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Valued Member
Switzerland
7 Posts
Posted 02/28/2021   09:38 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add adischaub to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
there seem to be as well Swiss Army stamps from WW1. Whilst I personally havent seen any yet, I can share with you the attached Postcard from the Swiss Army imprinted "Feldpostkarte Grenzbesetzung 1914" (Military postcard Boder occupation 1914). PS: Not intending to lure anyone on my website, but for those interested in blogs that combine history and stamps you might want to have a look at my (English and German) stamp blogs for the period between WW1 and Roaring Twenties https://www.sundaykitchen.ch/from-t...ish-deutsch/ Old German States https://www.sundaykitchen.ch/of-pos...ish-deutsch/ or general postal history https://www.sundaykitchen.ch/befrei...briefmarken/ In the next months I will add one for WW2 (including Swiss soldier stamps) and the beginning of air mail (including disasters). So long, take care. A




***We frown upon linking sites when posters have less then 50 posts. Making an exception here since it appears truly educational.- Mod***
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 02/28/2021   09:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks ADISCHAUB ,learn something about these unit stamps and history . As stated I never collected them but picked up a few over the years .....thanks again .
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Switzerland
7 Posts
Posted 02/28/2021   10:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add adischaub to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
***We frown upon linking sites when posters have less then 50 posts. Making an exception here since it appears truly educational.- Mod**


Mea culpa - I really hesitated to do so, but as my website is completely commercial free and non-profit and as the recent topics fitted nicely into the theme of this string I took the liberty to do so

Thanks for tolerating and best regards.
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Edited by adischaub - 02/28/2021 10:14 am
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