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Identfiy Hungarian Stamps

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Posted 02/27/2021   03:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add cupram to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I did not find much information about these stamps in the forum.
What I managed to identify is that the 2 Kr stamps are lithographed and 10 and 15 Kr engraved; 5 Kr ???.
Due to the lack of perforations, the stamps are out of the category evaluated in the catalogs, but I prefer to keep them (they are part of my inheritance from my mother)
What do I want to know from the experts in Hungarian stamps, are they fake or original?
If you look closely at the bottom perforation (at 2 Kr yellow) and at the side perforations (at 10 Kr blue) you will notice incomplete cutting of the perforations and breaking of the teeth during the detachment of the stamp from the sheet.
I wonder if this fact is mentioned in a philatelic work and the possibility that the postal workers of that period would prefer cutting. stamps (5 Kr and 15 Kr) so as not to risk their deterioration when detached from the sheet.
I don't think a collector cut the perforations of these valuable stamps (if they are original ??)
Thanks for any information.










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Posted 02/27/2021   05:36 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Some are forgeries and some look real.
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Posted 02/27/2021   05:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Actually, the 2kr value is engraved and both 5kr are definitely litho.

While scissors could be used by postal clerks, using scissors is a way for some collectors to make stamps look neater to their eye when collected. I suspect that is what happened since these are done the way they are, with very close trimming of sides that a postal clerk would not bother to do. Unfortunately, this is just considered damage.

There are situations where scissor-cut stamps are tolerated by collectors (some US re-issues, for example), but this is not one of them.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 02/27/2021 05:44 am
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Posted 02/27/2021   06:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Not qualified to establish authenticity.

Regarding the cutting, my take.
Philately in some respects was in its infancy,
and it may have been a youngster cutting stamps from covers
to keep, not aware of the importance of the edges and teeth.

Not seen much these days, as collectors would have trashed such items
as condition was made more valuable.

I think those stamps are fabulous, I'd keep them in a heartbeat, esp if it were my Mother's.

Look past the damage to the stamp's design. Lovely engraving.
Postmarks look genuine to me.
Nice!

The 2Kr looks dodgy to me.
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Edited by rod222 - 02/27/2021 06:09 am
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Posted 02/27/2021   06:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Double post deleted
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Edited by rod222 - 02/27/2021 06:06 am
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Romania
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Posted 02/27/2021   06:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cupram to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks you all
Hy- Brasil I do not understand: may be 5kr engraved and both 2 Kr litho?
rod222-my intention is to keep them; but I prefer to separate the originals from the fakes.
Floortrader-Which do you think are genuine?
Do you have any references to read for counterfeit stamps?
more 4 stamps of 5 Kr

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Posted 02/27/2021   06:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tore99 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The 5 kr in the original post looks interesting/odd... not sure why perforations only at the top and other margins seem not so narrowly cut. I would need to research this particular stamp issue more (the postmark seems appropriate, about a month after issue), but I can't think of a reason why it would be perforated like this as part of production.
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Edited by tore99 - 02/27/2021 06:51 am
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Posted 02/27/2021   07:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
stationery cut outs in that lot
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Posted 02/27/2021   08:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tore99 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
perf12 - agree with you on stationary cutouts on that last group of 5 kr

Am thinking the 5 kr I referred to earlier is a stationary cutout with perfs added at the top after cutting out. Perfs look odd; I need to find some examples for comparison - will be looking later today.
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Posted 02/27/2021   12:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Cupram, there is only one 2kr stamp, shown twice here. Engraved stamps have the printed lines standing above the surface of the paper. This should be visible under magnification. Further, the two outer framelines should be sharp and if properly printed/normal for this, should be thin and nearly completely unbroken. What criteria are you using to determine engraved vs. litho?

On review, I agree with tore99 that the 5kr with the 13/6 72 cancel is an indicium cut from stationery. All the other 5kr values are likely the same. The white margins around the stamps are too big to be stamps. The typical poor centering for stamps is due to the close spacing of the stamps on the sheet. Further, you need to measure the perfs on the 13/6 72 cancel item. The gauge does not look right, the perfs are very crooked/not in line and the holes appear too small compare with the 10kr and 15kr.

Have in mind that all catalog valuations are for sound stamps that are quite well centered. This is quite uncommon for these issues bad centering is the norm. Despite faults and centering, the stamps are still collectible but should not be considered particularly valuable.

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Posted 02/27/2021   2:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The first question that needs a answer by the O.P. ,is any of those stamps on cardboard stock or brown paper wrapper if not then they are not postal stationary .

They could be reprints because those are perf. 11 1/2 and on watermarked paper . Possible reprints that were trimmed to hide the perfs at 11 1/2 . Since none are in good to fine condition they will have no value to a collector.
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Posted 02/27/2021   2:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
postal stationery envelopes were of white paper.

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Edited by perf12 - 02/27/2021 2:41 pm
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Posted 02/27/2021   4:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cupram to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hy-brasil- I am a beginner collector but the first information I learned was about how stamps are made.
I have two descriptions for these printing methods:

The following distinctive features result from lithography:
blurry images, often interrupted in lines. matte and soft color (fine application of paint) indistinct outlines

The distinctive features are from engraving:
Application of paint perceptible as a relief. The design consists of thin lines and dots. The colored areas are obtained by close and / or crossed lines. A clear and detailed brand image.
If you look at the second picture posted, there are 2 stamps of 2 Kr (yellow and orange) and according to the above criteria I think they are litho. Am I wrong?
Excuse me, it's night to me and tomorrow I'll try to check the paper and the perforations (the ones that are)

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Posted 02/27/2021   4:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Perf. 12 that would be heavy paper ,the ones I have are slightly brown in color maybe a gray paper but you can tell it is heavier than the paper the stamps are printed on .
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Romania
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Posted 02/28/2021   02:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cupram to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hy-brazil - excuse me, the 2 Kr stamps are engraved.
In the sunlight my eyes still help me. I don't realize what I saw last night.
The stamps have a perforation of 9 1/2 less the 5 kr stamp (with misKOLCZ obliteration?) Which has 10.
The paper I think is wove, no watermark, thickness 0.08-0.09mm white-yellowish / gray.
Perf12-Thank you. Was the value of 5 Kr also on the postal stationery envelopes?
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Posted 02/28/2021   04:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add vayolene to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Michel U2
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