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Ottoman Negative Seal

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Pillar Of The Community

Canada
743 Posts
Posted 03/01/2021   07:52 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Just_fella to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
So I've been looking there ottoman/turkey cancellations
And it seems I have no real luck with finding information on my own about the box cancels.(So I started to look for the negative seals
It's my understanding there are only 4 seals?
And I'm curious why the one isn't complete?
This isn't my area so I could be wrong about something
(just getting a broader understanding of other areas) getting to know stamps!
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Edited by Just_fella - 03/01/2021 08:00 am

Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
3056 Posts
Posted 03/01/2021   08:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Just_fella,

I know of two main references for Ottoman Turkish postmarks.

I use the following books:

Postal Cancellations of the Ottoman Empire by John H. Coles and Howard E. Walker

This was published in four hardback volumes published in 1984-1995.

A more modern alternative is:

Illustrated Ottoman-Turkish Postmarks 1840-1929 by M. Ziya Agaogullari and M. Bülent Papuçcuoglu

I believe this comes in ten paperback volumes.

Both sets are very nicely produced with excellent illustrations.

I've looked at a couple of volumes from the new set but they were too expensive for me.

There were many negative seal postmarks and they are popular to collect.

I'd guess your Hodeidah postmark from Yemen is incomplete just because it was the best available image.

It looks as though it was taken from a torn envelope.




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Nigel
Edited by nigelc - 03/01/2021 08:53 am
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
743 Posts
Posted 03/01/2021   08:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Just_fella to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
awesome thank you again nigelc
ill look for those!
i fall short when it comes to using google
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Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
3053 Posts
Posted 03/01/2021   11:20 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It is a Telegraph handstamp in black.used in the 1890's.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
743 Posts
Posted 03/01/2021   11:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Just_fella to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not sure if this is the one I have
I only read of 4 :)

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Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
3056 Posts
Posted 03/01/2021   12:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It is a Telegraph handstamp in black.used in the 1890's.

Hello perf12,

What makes you think this is a telegraph usage?

The postmark seems to be dated 1313 so I assume its earliest use would be 1897 or 1898.

The image is essentially the same incomplete image as the one in Coles and Walker who simply gave "1897-" for the years in use.
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Nigel
Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
3053 Posts
Posted 03/01/2021   1:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have this in my photo files

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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
743 Posts
Posted 03/01/2021   1:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Just_fella to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looks right (did the best I could to clean up the cancellation)

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Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
3056 Posts
Posted 03/01/2021   2:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks perf12!

I don't see this cancellation in Coles and Walker. :(

I can't read Ottoman Turkish but the phrase 'telegraf ve posta hane' means 'telegraph and post office' which sounds like a general purpose handstamp.

I assume it's a philatelic piece but if we took the postage due at face value it would seem more likely to me to be postal rather than telegraph use.
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Nigel
Edited by nigelc - 03/01/2021 2:23 pm
Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
3053 Posts
Posted 03/01/2021   2:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
ok nigelc.
For the just_fella stamp (in violet)above I think it's the same as in this thread; Salhura Telegraphe
http://goscf.com/t/65042&whichpage=1
There is a lot iof information in these threads but not easy to find (key words must be used)....
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
743 Posts
Posted 03/01/2021   2:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Just_fella to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thank you perf12 and nigelc
i learn a ton from this site!
(i do need to work on my searches, not very good at them)
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Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
3056 Posts
Posted 03/01/2021   2:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Perf12, I don't see them as being the same but I find these difficult to make out.

Thanks very much for the link back to the old thread.

It was good to be reminded of another great reference for these postmarks, as recommended by PostmasterGS:

Handbuch der türkischen Philatelie, Teil I: Osmanisches Reich, Die Poststempel by Andreas Birken (in German)

Perhaps PostmasterGS, Michael or Rod will comment if they see this thread?
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Nigel
Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
3053 Posts
Posted 03/01/2021   3:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I colored some lines in what was really visible.It is not the same handstamp used on each stamp but could be the same type...
Just conjecture..

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Edited by perf12 - 03/01/2021 4:30 pm
Bedrock Of The Community
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Australia
31673 Posts
Posted 03/01/2021   4:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Nigel,
just watching at the moment...in middle of bricklaying job
.

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Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
3056 Posts
Posted 03/01/2021   5:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi perf12,

It is so frustrating not to be able to read the text on these seals even to transliterate the letters!

However, your "telegraph and post office" reference for the other postmark gave me an idea.

The texts on these seals are often fairly long and so maybe they often have a standard phrase such as "telegraph and post office" and I think that's what we have here (and why much of the text looks the same).



I think here we have TELEGRAPH at the top right and OFFICE (or maybe POST OFFICE) below with the name of teh office at the bottom?



As you can see I'm no artist and this took me quite a few attempts!

Is this wishful thinking on my part or does it seem at all reasonable?
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Nigel
Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
3053 Posts
Posted 03/01/2021   6:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

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