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1 Cent Franklin #24, A Perforation (And Id) Question 2 Strips Of 3

 
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Netherlands
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Posted 03/07/2021   08:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Dutch US Stamp Collector to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello all,

i have questions on the 3 strips of 3 #24's that have been dazzeling me, its time to ask for some help

on the right hand side strip I see a reoccurring perf missing, 4th from left. as they were not individually perfed, how did this happen?

on top stamp right strip top left ornament part "T" (as per neinken) is shown, but a 24 should not have this?

is stated, by aucktionhouse, 1 of the top stamps of one of the strip might be VA, but I am not seeing it, correct?



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Posted 03/07/2021   08:46 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Left one definitely not, right one should be plated. It's a first column piece so shouldn't be that difficult to plate.
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Posted 03/07/2021   10:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dudley to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello, Dutch,

None of these stamps are Type Va. The strips are Relief C-D-E (left) and B-C-D (right). Vertical pairs with Type Va on top and Type V on bottom do not exist in the configurations represented by these strips. The recurring missed perforation is due to a broken perforating pin. I am unsure what you mean by "part T."
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Posted 03/07/2021   11:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dutch US Stamp Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
hi Dudly,

thank you. I am new to trying to plate.
i gone trough all lefts side (so 1,11,21 etc of plates 5,7,8,9 and 10) and no match ;-(


this is the image from neiken book, inside cover, left ornament the little curs he calls T

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Posted 03/07/2021   11:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The "Left" ornament is actually defined by Neinken as 3 ornaments. S, T, & U. Notice how his drawing pluralizes Ornament.
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Posted 03/07/2021   11:16 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dutch US Stamp Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thank you, I am learning, please be patient with me ;-)

defiantly do not want to question your expertise, but trying to learn

when I take the nienken reliefs B of 5,7,8,9,10 the type b shows side scratches and no T ornament. am I looking wrong?
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Posted 03/07/2021   11:39 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dudley to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ah, I see. The side scratches on Relief B are sometimes very faint. A Relief B Type V stamp showing all the scratches as illustrated in Neinken is quite scarce, in my experience. There is no case in which a Type Va Relief B occurs immediately above a Type V Relief C; Plate 5 (the only plate on which Type Va occurs) simply isn't laid out that way. The location of a faint side scratch in the top stamp of the strip on the right can be seen below.


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Edited by dudley - 03/07/2021 11:45 am
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Posted 03/07/2021   11:46 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dutch US Stamp Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thank you so much dudly (and stalzer) for taking the time and effort to help and teach me, this really helps me as I expected it to be as clear as in the book.

as I said, a real novice...

now I go back and will try to plate with this new info on board!

that will probably be tomorrow, the boss is calling I have been in my dungeon all day
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Posted 03/07/2021   12:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dudley to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Browse through the Relief B stamps shown in the Doporto Image Archive at http://www.slingshotvenus.com/Frank...hv_Main.html and you will see how unclear the side scratches can be.
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Edited by dudley - 03/07/2021 12:44 pm
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Posted 03/07/2021   5:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dutch US Stamp Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
for both c reliefs I looked at all 21-30 stamps of the plates 5-7-8-9-10, concentrating on thees 2 markings. for the right one, because top is a B relief the second must be a C relief row 3

i am not finding it and have the feeling I am doing something wrong

i am finding one of the markings...on plate 10...but 20l10...and thats B not C. but it is also missing the other one




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Posted 03/07/2021   6:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Those will not be consistent. Neinken writes in his book;

"In addition to showing very incomplete ornaments at both right and left sides we find many stamps of this type with heavy scratches through the right ornaments, or through the left ornaments, or both. These type V stamps are glaring examples of poor workmanship and no trouble should be encountered identifying the common type".
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Posted 03/08/2021   04:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dutch US Stamp Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
stallzer, thank you for this, I will get back and re do this one.

will keep posting my process and/or results while doing my 1st 1 cent plating

i am now so happy I decided to use strips of 3 for this 1st attempt, and not single stamps ;-)
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Posted 03/08/2021   11:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dudley to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The side scratches on type V stamps are useful for identifying the reliefs, but they are of far less use in identifying specific positions due to their inconsistency, as stallzer points out. The scratches from any given position might look very different on a late printing than on an early printing.

In general, a Type V C Relief can be most readily identified by a heavy scratch between Ornaments L and M and a prominent scratch through the interior of Ornament R (see green arrows in position 21L8 pictured below, used with permission from the Doporto Image Archive). A Type V D Relief has scratches above and below Ornament R and often also a prominent scratch along the left-hand side of the design (see 32L8 below). A Type V B Relief has less to offer in the way of side scratches, but the image of 19L8 below is typical.




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Posted 03/08/2021   12:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dutch US Stamp Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
dudley, thank you so much! great help.

i hope to find the time tonight top get back at it....
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