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Scott 5344 Plate No. P2222 Vs P1111

 
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Valued Member
United States
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Posted 03/23/2021   10:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Alan B to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I recently acquired the new printing of Scott 5344 - US Flag - Plate Number P222. Has anyone noticed that the microprinting of USPS in the upper left-hand corner of the flag is unreadable? I compared it to the microprinting on Plate Number P111 and the difference is quite clear - on P111 the USPS is very readable and absolutely not on P222. Is this because of new paper or just shoddy printing?

Thanks,

Alan
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Posted 03/24/2021   12:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
please, if possible.
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Posted 03/24/2021   08:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Alan B to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply


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Posted 03/24/2021   08:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Alan B to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The first image is P1111, and the second is P2222
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Posted 03/24/2021   08:56 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Coinsearcher83 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Any chance the 2222 is counterfeit?
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331 Posts
Posted 03/24/2021   2:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Coinsearcher83 nails it!!!!

eBay item 372972936393 by tbrstamps had these photos but is currently sold out of the clearly indicated counterfeits.

Counterfeit pane--


Genuine stamp--


Counterfeit stamp--



So, Alan B, you have the difficult to find counterfeit, now go get the genuine.



While I was unmoved by coinsearcher83's comment, I then took a closer look at your photos. What struck me besides your USPS observation was the dot printing differences in the feet of the four numerals making up "2019" were suspect. All three, observation and comment sent me searching.
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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 03/24/2021 7:24 pm
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Posted 03/24/2021   4:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Alan B to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
OK - If I have a counterfeit, then the post office is selling them, as I bought the booklet directly from the US Post Office.
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Posted 03/24/2021   7:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There is also a difference in the serpentine die cuts. Those photos are below and again from tbrstamps. They, the images, are also unattributed to tbsstamps on the internet.

Do note this "stamp image" is listed in the Scott US Specialize 2021 Postal Counterfeit Section as 5344(CF1).

The listed above items number is gone, it does not even appear in sold nor completed listings. So anyone who did not look while it was available is out of luck seeing it.

While I must agree that if the USPS sold the booklet it should be genuine. That said, when we have put counterfeit nuts and bolt in our advanced US military aircraft, it seems counterfeits can get most anywhere.

The real conundrum would be if in fact the USPS got a shipment of counterfeit booklets and sold them over the counter. Are they now just normally released "booklet varieties" and no longer counterfeit?

Genuine--


Counterfeit--


Genuine--


Counterfeit--
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Posted 03/24/2021   10:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Alan B to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not sure I can see any difference in the serpentine lines. What am I missing? On the other hand, in the second set of images, BOTH are plate no. P1111, while my booklet (booklets now as I bought 5 more) are definitely plate number P2222, which, I gather, uses different paper.
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Posted 03/24/2021   10:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The CF1 listing in Scott discusses the mircoprinting (as a blob), die cut and certain dot characteristics of certain letters or numbers in a long footnote paragraph. It also mentions the paper on the CF1 is flat under shortwave or longwave UV light. It does not specify a plate number for the CF1 as the listing copy is a used single on cover.

See: https://www.linns.com/news/us-stamp...number-p2222 for explanation of differences between P1111 and P2222.
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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 03/24/2021 11:20 pm
Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 03/25/2021   10:48 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Trainwreck to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There is definitely a difference in the orientation (angle) of the dots making up the "A" and "F" in the images above. Look at the horizontal members of the letters--you can see the difference.

Robert
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Posted 03/25/2021   7:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Alan B to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Trainwreck - thank you for your comments. I can see differences in the the letters, but Parcelpostguy had said there were differences in the serpentine die cuts, and I was having problems seeing those differences.

Alan
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Posted 03/25/2021   11:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry, I did not expand on the dots issue as I thought mentioning the Scott footnote implied an expansion from the one example of dots I had previously mentioned to others.

As to serpentine die cuts, Scott lists the genuine as "10 3/4 x 11 1/4" and the CF1 as "10.8 x 11.25" to which I say good luck with that. That aside, the paper deviation along the genuine serpentine seem wider and raised up more that the counterfeit.

_______________________________________________________________________________

Now just some general observations. Microprinting is a form of security printing to prevent the images from being unlawfully duplicated. For the plate P1111, that is quite clear as the genuine microprinted "USPS" is readable and the counterfeit "USPS" an unreadable blob.

Now with the P2222 plates if the ones you have are the correct company "genuine" versions of the intended P2222 printing runs, therein lies a problem. If the so-called microprinted "USPS" is a blob on the genuine product, and still a blob on a counterfeit product, then the "security feature" is not, well, a security feature.

The printing paper was changed by the manufacturer after press run of plate P1111 such that different paper was used for press run P2222. The paper or the image used for the P2222 run or a combination of both may have resulted in what should have been an unacceptable product due to the failed security feature, the microprinted USPS.

That said, you should sent one two of your booklets (and copy of the USPS receipt) to Linn's and ask the question, Why is my P2222 Scott #5344 produced with a blob as the microprinted "USPS" similar to the blob of the counterfeited P1111? Linn's should follow up. If the company or cops to a quality control issue or the USPS cops to accepting a product with a quality control issue, problem solved.

You could be credited (or blamed ) for this discovery and go down in philatelic history.

Now I trust Linn's and would send, as well as have sent, them valuable material. They handled it well and returned in the same condition. Methinks we have beaten this matter as close to death as we can on a forum.

I miss BEP stamp production.

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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 03/25/2021 11:54 pm
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