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Posted 08/14/2021   8:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add PekingDuckDog to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If you're using Bestine, please make sure it's in a well-ventilated room. I failed to follow that advice once, and it spaced me out - not in a fun way, either.

I'm not aware of stamps that respond to Bestine but not to Pure Citrus - or the other way around - but if you can use Pure Citrus, you're better off. Unfortunately, Goo Gone doesn't work as well. I'm not really sure why. (Chemistry lab was a long time ago. I wish I'd appreciated it at the time, because I would have been a pretty good lab rat, but the teacher was creepy.)
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Posted 08/14/2021   9:40 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Peking, good point. The use of heptane is not recommended by this forum or its owners.
The heptane MSDS is located here https://www.fishersci.com/store/msd...&language=en
Those using it should be online discovery on its health effects before brings it into your home. As the MSDS notes, heptane is a Category 1 aspiration hazard. 'The most severe of the aspiration hazard categories (Category 1) is accompanied by the warning label "may be fatal if swallowed and enters airways.'

Don
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Posted 08/14/2021   9:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add serf_tide to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I am a chemist, PhD. I've handled it correctly. I'm not familiar with Pure Citrus, but looking at the SDS, it's an amalgum of everything that could clean a surface. Not sure if that is good for the paper. I'll get a bottle and try it.
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Posted 08/14/2021   9:44 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Not the point, you might be an expert but this is a public forum. What would you do if someone uses it based upon your post and then gets hurt or dies?
Don

Edit; Not to mention the ethics of treating stamps with chemicals and then selling them. You are running an eBay stamp store, do you really want your reputation to be that you sell chemically treated stamps?
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Posted 08/19/2021   5:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add serf_tide to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I totally understand your point on the public forum. I stand corrected. I thought I was being addressed directly.

Chemically treated is an interesting term. I don't think of a solvent as a chemical treatment as it completely evaporates and does not react with any of the components in the stamp or glue. The Pure Citrus is what I would consider a chemical treatment. This is a chemical formulation to "attack" the components which is why I would be concerned about the quality of the paper and the ink afterwards. Totally different from a solvent like water or in this case Heptane. The self-adhesives (since 1989) uses a water soluble glue.

If stamps got moist and then dried, should this be listed in the description of the stamp? If not, neither should Heptane as it acts exactly the same way as water. No chemical reaction is taking place.
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Posted 08/19/2021   5:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add serf_tide to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I did try an extended treatment of a couple of plate blocks with the Heptane (36 hours) to see the impact. It clearly completely dissolved the glue as the glue is now on both sides of the block of stamps, evenly distributed. The plastic that was stuck to it peeled right off.
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Posted 08/19/2021   7:52 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"I don't think of a solvent as a chemical treatment as it completely evaporates and does not react with any of the components in the stamp or glue."
Your belief does not constitute proof that there is no reaction with the ink or paper or that there are no impurities that could cause a problem Solvents are not inert - they do react with some things and paper or some inks could be one of them.

"I did try an extended treatment of a couple of plate blocks with the Heptane (36 hours) to see the impact. It clearly completely dissolved the glue" This may not be what you think. Rather than the heptane dissolving the gum, it could be pulling in water from the humidity in the air which then disolves the gum.

"The self-adhesives (since 1989) uses a water soluble glue.The self-adhesives (since 1989) uses a water soluble glue."

Ignoring the fact that it has not been possible to soak off most (all?) US self-adhesives for many years now, when they were soakable, it was not the self-adhesive that was water soluble, there was a separate think regular gum layer above the adhesine that allowed the stamps to be water soaked off.
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Posted 08/19/2021   9:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add serf_tide to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"it could be pulling in water from the humidity in the air which then dissolves the gum." Heptane is non-polar (like gasoline, which contains a lot of heptane). Water is polar (has a +/- end like a battery). Heptane will not "pull in" water, being hydrophobic (water hating). It has no + or - to sufficiently interact with the water (we call it nonpolar). It always separates away from water unless mixed with a surfactant (think soap).

"Your belief does not constitute proof that there is no reaction"...the word, Belief, makes it sound like it is not based on sound scientific evidence. Solvents, by definition, dissolve a substance to varying extent and then leave it behind in its original form (unreacted). Dissolve salt in water and it appears to go away. Evaporate the water and the salt appears to reappear. The salt itself never changed from its original chemical makeup. Heptane will not dissolve salt, but it will dissolve the glue. Then when it evaporates, it leaves the glue behind.

If you take any prescription medicine, when it is produced, it ends up dissolved in a solvent (usually not water). This solvent does not affect the molecular structure of the drug. It keeps it completely intact, but "safe" from other chemicals that might chemically react with the drug. The final step is to precipitate the drug out of the solvent and completely evaporate the solvent. You never think about it, but it works. Solvents are a gift from God. Chemists completely understand how they work. Heptane is not reacting with any part of the paper/ink/glue. It may dissolve it, but it comes back out exactly as it was.

https://www.worldofmolecules.com/solvents/

The internet is full of instructions of people trying to get paper off of stamps. Obviously, what I'm talking about is not new.
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Posted 08/19/2021   10:33 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
While I follow your point about heptane being water phobic, your claim that solvents never react with anything is false. While they may only dissolve some substances they can react with others. Water may dissolve salt, but put it into contact with sodium or rubidium or whatever you call dry cement and a reaxtion most definitely occurs.
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Posted 08/19/2021   10:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add serf_tide to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I can't dispute that. Water with Sodium is a nice violent reaction. I do it 3-4 times a year as a demonstration to young kids. They love it. It is quite fun. The Sodium metal is a great example of the non-reacting nature of heptane. Metallic Sodium is traditionally stored in mineral oil which is cheap, but it definitely could be effectively stored in heptane. It is stored in the mineral oil due to its hydrophobic nature. No water can get in through the oil. Like I said, heptane would give the exact same effect.

I could write 8 pages on reactions that involve water (not just take place in water, but water is actually reacting), so if that is where you are going (if it ever has any reaction then it isn't really a solvent), I have no rebuttal. Heptane is very flammable, so it reacts with O2 with only a simple spark. That doesn't have anything to do with how it works with the glue. It dissolves the surface of the glue loosening the connection to the attached paper/plastic without actually changing the glue.
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Posted 09/08/2021   2:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chris s to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
serf tide

I read through most of this thread and find it fascinating. It reminded me a little of my experience valuing an inherited coin collection - several binders with coins, a safe with coins in the original packaging from the US Mint. I rushed through the process but have no regrets as I did find decent dealers to buy it and most of it was chaff or only of modest value.

I would love to hear just a general summary of where you are at. I myself dealt with a thankfully small stamp collection - just one binder where the stamps were affixed to a photo album with adhesive on its pages. The only way I got the stamps off were to simply leave them out in a dry room and only soak a few allowing the stamps to to rise off the page. I kept a few/used quite a few/ and sent some to friends or collectors who may wish to sell/keep or use. My collection was easy as most were from the late 1970's to early 1990's US stamps, with a few older pre WW2 US stamps but again nothing of much worth. Still I did find a nice mint/unused US 2590 $1 Surrender of Gen Burgoyne at Saratoga from the early 1990's designed by one of the great stamp designers of modern times. A really neat stamp, although it commands a very low premium. (on average about $1.75 plus shipping, further proof of the great difficulty finding truly valuable --- that is to the marketplace - stamps from issues of the past 50 years)
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Edited by chris s - 09/08/2021 2:34 pm
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Posted 09/14/2021   6:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add serf_tide to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm at about 15-20% of the collection. Going through the airmail stamps now. I have about 515 listings on eBay and am selling 5 or so per day with a peak on weekends. I'm trying to be aggressive on price. Souvenir sheets sell...flat out sell. If you look at my Google drive, I have the Sold spreadsheet at the top level. I keep that updated as best as possible for my brothers to follow my progress. One of my brothers is selling my Dad's fdc's. He's sold a hundred or so of them.

I've sent 8 stamps into APS for expertizing. One of them is a NewFoundland #6 (Scott). I'm hoping it is valuable. Once I get it back, I'll have to figure out how to price it.

This group out here is worth their weight in gold as they generally know what they are talking about. Yeah, I get a few comments that expose my ignorance, but in general the collectors here are very helpful.
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Edited by serf_tide - 09/14/2021 11:23 pm
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Posted 09/14/2021   7:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add serf_tide to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
On the stuck stamps. I have 2 binders of mint sheets and a bucket of plate blocks that I've set aside. I played around with getting them lose and it works if they are stuck to plastic, but glassine and this black construction paper that my Dad used...no success. It took a lot of time and I'm going to push it to the end and maybe just sell them to someone who wants to spend the time on it. I'm estimating the value of the mint sheets to be around $2500. It is a lot of sheets. I'm not sure if he knew that they were stuck.
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Posted 09/15/2021   2:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jconey to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
serf_tide. That's a bummer. Stuck stamps aren't worth much as a rule. Wish you the best of luck but unfortunately, I'm not sure you'll get anywhere near the $2500 they would have been worth.
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Posted 09/15/2021   2:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add classic_paper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
$2500 catalog value, or $2500 actual market sales-price? If the former, then in the best of cases they'd be worth perhaps 1/3 of that; stuck together or on some other material, very little.

If you meant that similar lots have sold for $2500, then there's a chance you may be able to recover a percentage of that, even in their current state.
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