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So Who's Afraid Of The Indian States?

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Rest in Peace
Canada
6750 Posts
Posted 04/28/2010   03:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Puzzler to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Those Jammu Kashmir stamps are really cool! I like them!

Thanks for all your work Tony! It makes a difference when someone who knows explains things.
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 04/28/2010   03:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add spock1k to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear Tony,

Please focus the post office will recognize it thats my guarantee. They will even cancel it but it will be a cancel with today's date. then what happens.
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Australia
3547 Posts
Posted 04/28/2010   03:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Those Jammu Kashmir stamps are really cool! I like them!

Thanks for all your work Tony! It makes a difference when someone who knows explains things.


Puzzler, I'm delighted to find a second person reading this thread!

I agree with you about these Jammu & Kashmir. There's something wild and in your face about them that gets to you. I've been dreaming of getting T-shirts made up with these stamps on them ... only I don't really have the figure for wearing things like that
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Australia
3547 Posts
Posted 04/28/2010   03:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Well, Spock, if you can get nice Jaipur cancellations like these, suitably backdated



it will be very interesting. However, I'm afraid your cover will end up with a little horseshoe marking like this



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Posted 04/28/2010   04:29 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add spock1k to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
no it wont Tony,

the cover will get to you with british india or any indian native state stamp that is mint. it will have a cancel. the cover willg et to you registered no postage due but the cancel will be of todays date or whenever we mail it. will that have any value?
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Posted 04/28/2010   04:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add spock1k to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
and finally you have admitted this thread is a private screening for spock. :)
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Posted 04/28/2010   05:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
No and No
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Australia
3547 Posts
Posted 04/28/2010   06:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
At this point, we need a small geographical and historical digression.

The state of Jammu & Kashmir was created around 170 years ago by a Hindu general in the Punjab region, who controlled the Jammu region in what was basically the north of the Punjab. He moved north again and took the mountainous neighbouring Kashmir valley from the Afghans who had held it for some time, and established the merged state. The ruling family of Jammu & Kashmir had their Summer capital in Srinagar, capital of Kashmir, and their Winter capital at Jammu town, since Srinagar was largely cut off by impassable snowy mountains.

In fact, a fair amount of the postal administration in the early days at least seems to have been run from Jammu town: certainly, the stamps were printed there.

Now, for reasons unexplained, separate stamp issues were made for Jammu and Kashmir in 1867, the year after the Circulars appeared, and continued in use alongside the Circulars until 1878.

Jammu issued only two values, a Anna and a 1 Anna, in a curious sheet of four, with the top two and bottom right stamp being Annas and the bottom left stamp a 1 Anna. Complete genuine sheets are rare - modern fakes are not. However, the modern fakes look nothing like the real stamps:



SG 60 and 61 - the and 1 Anna

Shades of red seem to have been the standard colour for Jammu ... but, there were scarce to horribly rare (try 4750) printings in other colours - blue, black and green. These stamps were also printed in watercolour and oil colour. There isn't too much difference in value in the reds between the two types of ink, and the other colours are all expensive, whichever type of ink was used.

Here is the Anna in deep ultramarine, SG 56



and the 1 Anna in indigo, SG 55



two of the slightly more affordable ones. (The magenta smudges are cancellations: used are much cheaper than mint )

Most of these stamps, and the early Circulars, were printed on 'native' paper. This was locally made (the State supplies were made in the jail). It looks slightly like a laid paper, but is rougher and usually has bits of bark and other things evident.

Around 1877, the printers started to experiment with European papers, both for the Circulars and for Jammu. Most of the Circulars on European papers are scarce to rare, and all the Jammu printings on European papers are rare to very rare.

In 1877 again, there may - or may not - have been a provisional printing in red using the Jammu obliterator as a Anna stamp. A few of these do exist, but there's furious debate in the tiny world of Jammu specialists over whether they were a genuine issue, or something cooked up for the early collectors.

(The obliterator, by the way, was a seal of the 'Jammu Iron Mines', appropriated to cancel stamps. The mines were probably a source of the red pigment used to print these stamps.)
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Posted 04/28/2010   07:38 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Kashmir, on the other hand, was provided with a set of six values, from Anna to 8 Annas. The and 1 Anna values appeared first, printed in black, in 1866. These are scarce to rare, and I don't have one, so that's that.

The full set appeared, in different colours in 1867. Here is a simplified version, with one of each value:



Of course, this wouldn't be Jammu & Kashmir if it didn't include a few screaming rarities to put the average collector off. The 1 Anna exists printed in the blue of the Anna, and there are two rare shades of the 4 Anna (sage-green and myrtle-green, against the normal emerald-green. Despite its name, the emerald-green is apparently arsenic-based. Unwise to lick front of these stamps.)

Here, just because I can , is the sage-green, SG 100



and also as an object lesson. I picked this up in a mixed lot of Jammu & Kashmir, unrecognized by its previous owner.

There were no reprints of the Jammu types, but there were of the Kashmir. They're usually in the wrong colours, and even when they are in the right colours, the appearance is quite wrong - far too well printed, in oil colours or printer's ink, rather than watercolours like the originals:



These are all of the 1 Anna, but most values were affected.

Finally, attentive readers may have noticed the close similarity between the common Kashmir Anna blue and the scarce Jammu Anna blue:



(Jammu SG 54 on the left, Kashmir SG 91 on the right)

When they're clearly enough printed, you'll see that the last letter (or figure, actually) at the bottom of the central oval differs between the Jammu and Kashmir types. There are other differences, but this is the most obvious. Don't be too quick to assume that your Anna blue has to be a Jammu printing
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Posted 04/28/2010   10:36 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add spock1k to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
your denials have scared away puzzler as usual spock remains

continue posting

bravo bravo

it is still not too late to call it how much spock loves the indian states
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Posted 04/28/2010   10:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Spock, I'm sure Puzzler will summon up his courage, and return when I get to Jind ...
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Rest in Peace
Canada
6750 Posts
Posted 04/28/2010   11:10 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Puzzler to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Question, do any of the Indian States have cancels specifically made for the railways? RPOs? TPOs? Or other special post offices?

Now spock, don't block me from enjoying appreciating beauty here! I am slow but sure, like the tortoise in the race.
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Posted 04/28/2010   11:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add spock1k to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
yes yes and yes

you re busy puzzler, the titanic is sinking and I have just appointed you captain

while you are out there saving the ship

i will listen to the music Tony is playing in my honor

Dont stop Tony contnue posting you have only reached I so far
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Australia
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Posted 04/28/2010   7:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Question, do any of the Indian States have cancels specifically made for the railways? RPOs? TPOs? Or other special post offices?


Yes, Cochin, Jaipur and Hyderabad did for sure, and Travancore might have done (Rod can no doubt shed further light; he has a curious affection for Travancore).

If you trek back up this page a bit, you'll see I posted a Jaipur postcard (with the Anna olive SERVICE stamp) with a Jaipur R.S. (railway station) CDS. When I can find the time, I'll look through my Cochin and Hyderabad covers, and see if I can find some examples of railway markings. I'm not optimistic, though

In the meantime, I'll preview this



spread of British Indian railway markings on the back of my one and only early Jind () cover. This is the front:

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Australia
28168 Posts
Posted 04/28/2010   7:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Travancore might have done


I have been exposed, I cannot recall any to my knowledge
which pales into insignificance in this thread.
My collection is rather paltry, and all I have are the
mail RAIL routes, appropriate proving covers are notable by
their absence.
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Edited by rod222 - 04/28/2010 9:16 pm
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