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So Who's Afraid Of The Indian States?

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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
3547 Posts
Posted 04/07/2010   10:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Puzzler, delighted to have aroused your interest!

I'm not sure which stamp you mean, looking like a chess piece. Which State did it come from? Was it this one from Cochin?



AFAIK, chess pieces never appeared on any of the Indian States stamps - though plenty of (actual) castles did. However, if you can fit one of these stamps into a Chess theme, go for it by all means!

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Rest in Peace
Canada
6750 Posts
Posted 04/07/2010   10:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Puzzler to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry, I didn't check back and determine which one it was exactly!

Here it is, the last Bhopal SG100 1907-8 stamp. Perhaps the little castle is more a heraldic device than representing a chess piece, or the Indian variant perhaps?

I was curious as chess did originate in India somewhere as a slightly different game, I think 10 or more squares rather than the eight we know.

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Pillar Of The Community
2663 Posts
Posted 04/07/2010   10:52 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add spock1k to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
you didnt know about india stamps inspite of being my dear budddy

oh how my heart breaks
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 04/07/2010   10:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add spock1k to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
and that is coat of arms another of my themes :)

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Canada
6750 Posts
Posted 04/07/2010   11:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Puzzler to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
No, I am / was ignorant and happy in my bliss. Now I have to study and puzzle over these stamps also! Ah, but don't we learn more through suffering?

Looks fun!

It looks as if one should learn up on some Indian languages also, or certain characters at least.
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
3547 Posts
Posted 04/07/2010   7:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Puzzler, yes: it is the Bhopal coat of arms. It appeared regularly on Bhopal stamps from that point onwards.

I don't know the background to it, but there must be a story attached. The fish supporters are a little curious too, as Bhopal is in Central India, a long way from the sea.
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Canada
5701 Posts
Posted 04/07/2010   10:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BeeSee to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Spock! Report to the Identification Deck, we need the story of this coat-of-arms; is it a valid Chess-on-Stamps Theme?
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BeeSee in BC
"The Postmark is Mightier than the Stamp"
http://brcstamps.com ---- BNAPS, RPSC, APS
Rest in Peace
Canada
6750 Posts
Posted 04/07/2010   11:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Puzzler to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
My first thought when I saw the 'fish' was of Indian river dolphin as on some modern India stamp that I saw,perhaps one that spock had. Must research the chess link. Perhaps wikipedia again . . .
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
3547 Posts
Posted 04/07/2010   11:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I did find this formal description of the Bhopal Arms, courtesy of the India Study Circle, Bhopal Handbook:
Vert, a tower or within twelve musk blossoms proper in bordure. Crest, a sheaf of arrows charged with a lily argent. Supporters: Mahsir (fish) proper

And from Google
mahseer/mahsir

any of several species of edible game fishes of the genus Barbus, in the carp family, Cyprinidae, found in clear rivers and lakes of India and southeastern Asia. Mahseer have large, thick scales, powerful jaws, and protrusible, sometimes very fleshy, lips adapted for taking food from the bottom. Among the largest of Indian river fishes, mahseer attain a maximum size of some 2 m (6.5 feet), with a weight of about 90 kg (200 pounds)

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Australia
3547 Posts
Posted 04/07/2010   11:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Forgot to add: Motto: Nasr minullah ('Victory from Allah')
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
3547 Posts
Posted 04/08/2010   12:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In 1939, Cochin decided to issue separate postage ('Anchal') and revenue stamps. This only affected the 1 Anna value, and the authorities decided to overprint it with the word ANCHAL for postal use. Being the frugal types they were, the Cochin PO used supplies both of the older Perkins, Bacon printings and the newer litho printings (which existed with two different perf gauges) and - for whatever reason - used two sizes of overprint. The upshot was five versions of the stamp, and a watermark inverted error as well

And here they are. First, the large ANCHAL on the recess 1 Anna (SG 72). This has an albino strike of the overprint in the margin, which may just be visible



Next, a cover showing the offset-litho 1 Anna with the large overprint, perf 11 (SG73). Mint, or perf 13x13½, this would be very desirable; as it is ...



And finally, the offset-litho 1 Anna with the small overprint, perf 13x13½ (SG 74a)



And the moral of this story is: if you come across any of these stamps (and the later surcharges), check them closely. You never know when you'll turn up some previously unrecognized permutation (like the small overprint on a recess 1 Anna).

In 1942, the old Maharaja had died, and stamps for the new Maharaja hadn't yet been printed, but there was a need for certain values. Cochin fell back on surcharging. First, redundant 1 Anna 8 Pies stamps of the old Maharaja: these were surcharged 3 Pies, 6 Pies or 1 Anna 3 Pies, in two types of surcharge

Value alone:



(SG 77 with SG 97)

and with the word SURCHARGED



(This one has a D (for Devaswom, the State temple administration) perfin.)

The corresponding official stamps were also surcharged in the same way. Catalogue values of these surcharges, both normal and official, vary wildly. Some are dead common, like the 1 Anna 3 Pies above; others, like the single line 3 Pies surcharge, are distinctly uncommon.
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
3547 Posts
Posted 04/08/2010   01:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This wasn't enough. The PO still needed more 3, 6 and 9 Pies stamps, so they surcharged the offset-litho 4 Pies and 1 Anna stamps in the same way, adding the word ANCHAL (both large and small) to the surcharges on the 1 Anna stamps. This produced a wonderful profusion of varieties, some of which are quite scarce.

Even if I had all of them, and I certainly don't, it would be thoroughly wearisome to work through all the variations. Here is a single example, of one of the better ones: the small ANCHAL, single line surcharge on the perf 13x13½ 1 Anna, SG 81a



At this point, we need to backtrack a little. Cochin always used large numbers of official stamps. In fact, one printing of the litho stamps only appeared overprinted for government use. This used paper with a new watermark: no longer the small umbrella on each stamp, but a large sheet watermark, so that stamps either show inexplicable bits of lines or curves, or nothing at all. This new printing was made on the paper with the sheet watermark.

Six values were printed and overprinted. The three lower values occur perf either 11 or 13x13½ - but who knows? It does no harm to run the perf gauge over any stamps from this set (and to check the watermark, too!) Here is the 4 Pies, SG O54



Now, when it came time to surcharge the official stamps, stocks of printings on both the single umbrella and sheet watermark stamps were included. Throw in the perforation varieties as well as all the types of surcharge, and you have a first class muddle. Once again, it would try anyone's patience to show everything, and I couldn't anyway, so here is a single example:



This is SG O66, the Type O9 official overprint on the offset-litho 1 Anna with the small umbrella watermark and the two-(or three-)line surcharge, perf 11 ...

You can see the possibilities These surcharges and overprints are madly complicated, but they can keep you happily occupied and out of worse mischief for hours. I heartily recommend them!
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 04/08/2010   03:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add spock1k to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
here is your bhopal story and if you pay me right I can lend you a copy of my coat of arms mind you those are expensive


The state was established in 1724 by the Afghan Sardar Dost Mohammed Khan, who was a commander in the Mughal army posted at Mangalgarh, which lies to the north of the modern city of Bhopal. Taking advantage of the disintegration of the Mughal empire, he usurped Mangalgarh and Berasia (now a tehsil of the Bhopal District).

Poison given to Gond Queen Kamalapati's Husband by his own Nephews & Brothers, when Queen Kamalapati Listen that few Pathans of Afghanistan are here and they are very Brave (Dost Mohammed Khan & his Real Brothers) then she asked them to executed her husband's relatives,

When Dost Mohammed Khan & his Brave Real Brothers Executed them, then because of short money The Queen gave him a princely RS 50,000 and against balance 50,000 she gave them Village Bhojpal (Bhopal) Mouza village (which is situated near modern Bhopal city).


Dost Mohammed Khan established his capital 10 km away from modern Bhopal, at Jagdishpur. He named his capital Islamnagar, meaning the city of Islam. He built a small fort and some palaces at Islamnagar, the ruins of which can still be seen today. After few years, he built a bigger fort situated on the northern bank of the Upper Lake. He named this new fort Fatehgarh ("the fort of victory"). Later the capital was shifted to the current city of Bhopal.

India achieved independence on August 15, 1947. Bhopal was one of the last states to sign the 'Instrument of Accession'. The ruler of Bhopal acceded to the Indian government, and Bhopal became an Indian state on 1 May 1949. Sindhi refugees from Pakistan were accommodated in Bairagarh, a western suburb of Bhopal.

The eldest daughter of Nawab Hamidullah Khan and presumptive heiress, Abida Sultan, gave up her right to the throne and opted for Pakistan in 1950. She entered Pakistan's foreign service. Therefore, the Government of India excluded her from the succession and her younger sister Begum Sajida succeeded in her stead. Abida Sultan arrived in the newly created Pakistan when she was 37 and a mother of a young son. She was to spend the greater part of her life in Pakistan, and she died in 2002. Her son, Shaharyar Khan, was to become the Foreign Secretary of Pakistan and then the Chairman of the Pakistan Cricket Board. If his mother had not given up her claim to the throne, Shaharyar Khan, would have been the Nawab of Bhopal as well as the Nawab of Kurwai, since his father was the Nawab of Kurwai.

The last ruling Nawab of Pataudi, Iftikhar Ali Khan, married Begum Sajida. Upon the demise of Begum Sajida in 1995, her only son Mansoor Ali Khan, the titular Nawab of Pataudi, is regarded by many as being the head of the royal family of Bhopal.
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 04/08/2010   03:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add spock1k to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
here is your bhopal story and if you pay me right I can lend you a copy of my coat of arms mind you those are expensive


The state was established in 1724 by the Afghan Sardar Dost Mohammed Khan, who was a commander in the Mughal army posted at Mangalgarh, which lies to the north of the modern city of Bhopal. Taking advantage of the disintegration of the Mughal empire, he usurped Mangalgarh and Berasia (now a tehsil of the Bhopal District).

Poison given to Gond Queen Kamalapati's Husband by his own Nephews & Brothers, when Queen Kamalapati Listen that few Pathans of Afghanistan are here and they are very Brave (Dost Mohammed Khan & his Real Brothers) then she asked them to executed her husband's relatives,

When Dost Mohammed Khan & his Brave Real Brothers Executed them, then because of short money The Queen gave him a princely RS 50,000 and against balance 50,000 she gave them Village Bhojpal (Bhopal) Mouza village (which is situated near modern Bhopal city).


Dost Mohammed Khan established his capital 10 km away from modern Bhopal, at Jagdishpur. He named his capital Islamnagar, meaning the city of Islam. He built a small fort and some palaces at Islamnagar, the ruins of which can still be seen today. After few years, he built a bigger fort situated on the northern bank of the Upper Lake. He named this new fort Fatehgarh ("the fort of victory"). Later the capital was shifted to the current city of Bhopal.

India achieved independence on August 15, 1947. Bhopal was one of the last states to sign the 'Instrument of Accession'. The ruler of Bhopal acceded to the Indian government, and Bhopal became an Indian state on 1 May 1949. Sindhi refugees from Pakistan were accommodated in Bairagarh, a western suburb of Bhopal.

The eldest daughter of Nawab Hamidullah Khan and presumptive heiress, Abida Sultan, gave up her right to the throne and opted for Pakistan in 1950. She entered Pakistan's foreign service. Therefore, the Government of India excluded her from the succession and her younger sister Begum Sajida succeeded in her stead. Abida Sultan arrived in the newly created Pakistan when she was 37 and a mother of a young son. She was to spend the greater part of her life in Pakistan, and she died in 2002. Her son, Shaharyar Khan, was to become the Foreign Secretary of Pakistan and then the Chairman of the Pakistan Cricket Board. If his mother had not given up her claim to the throne, Shaharyar Khan, would have been the Nawab of Bhopal as well as the Nawab of Kurwai, since his father was the Nawab of Kurwai.

The last ruling Nawab of Pataudi, Iftikhar Ali Khan, married Begum Sajida. Upon the demise of Begum Sajida in 1995, her only son Mansoor Ali Khan, the titular Nawab of Pataudi, is regarded by many as being the head of the royal family of Bhopal.
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 04/08/2010   03:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add spock1k to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
unfortunately most of the coat of arms in india are of european lineage here is a theory ont he bhopal one

Bhopal: Bourbon who, ask many. A Bourbon in Bhopal, query even those with a nodding acquaintance with the regionís history. An advocate making the rounds of the district court? With a Dutch wife running a commonplace English medium higher secondary school in a back alley of congested Jahangirabad? And a teenaged son wanting to make films like Satyajit Ray and Akira Kurosawa? Amusing, perplexing if not altogether shocking. Talk of the perfect square peg in a round hole.

Indeed, ìCíest moi,î burbles the amiable, portly, and utterly Indian Balthazar Napoleon Bourbon IV, the 40-year-old scion of Asiaís only surviving Bourbon clan, one of the six collateral branches of Europeís most celebrated line of royals who presided over the fortunes of France from 1610 till 1792 before the most illustrious member of the clan, Louis IV, was put to the guillotine by Robespierre and his rogues during the peak of the Terror. The Bourbon sovereignties also extended over Spain, the two Sicilies, and the duchy of Parma.

Though not quite in that enviable league, there was a time when the homegrown Bourbons, says Balthazar, owned virtually ìhalf of Bhopalî. All that remains of the jagir, he bemoans, is 60 acres of farmland, a few shops, and a respectable haveli discreetly tucked behind the school premises. ìThe House of Bourbon,î as the entrance announces, was a transit point for members of the clan who came on elephants to attend the neighbouring church, Bhopalís first. Even the coat of arms (a fleur de lis) adopted by the princely State of Bhopal was a Bourbon hand-down.

Christianity, in fact, sneaked into the royal State of Bhopal wrapped in the coat-tails of the first Bourbon resident, Salvador de Bourbon (Inayat Masih), who settled here around 1783. Both he and his son, Balthazar (great-grandfather of the present descendant) went on to become leading figures in the Bhopal court by virtue of their proximity to Wazir Mohammad Khan (great-grandson of Bhopalís founder Dost Mohammad Khan), then the virtual ruler. It was Balthazar (Shahzad Masih) whose wife, Isabella, got the first church built in the vicinity.

A swashbuckling soldier and military strategist, the multifaceted talents of the firang were noticed, and he was appointed political counsellor to the formidable regent, Qudsia Begum, whose lover he became for some time after the death of her husband Nazar Mohammad Khan, son of Wazir. It was Balthazar de Bourbon who was singularly responsible for ushering in in 1819 the 107-year-old rule of the four Begums in a conservative Muslim society where a womanís only place was the harem.

The deep debt of gratitude she owed Balthazar finds mention in the Hayaat-e-Qudsia. Though Balthazar was poisoned by jealous Afghan courtiers in 1829, Qudsia remained regent till 1837, and lived to see the rule of both her daughter Sikandar (1844-68) and grand-daughter Shahjahan (1868-1901) till her death in 1881. Balthazar was the first Bourbon to shake off his European trappings and become a pucca Oriental.

Hence, the smooth morph into Shahzad Masih. So well did life in Bhopal suit him that he even learned Persian and Urdu, penning verse in the latter under the nom de plume Fitrat. Wife Isabella transformed into Sarkar Dulhan, outliving her husband by over four decades. Son Sebastian (Ejaz Masih) briefly served as prime minister to Sikandar Jahan Begum. Louis Rousselet, a French traveller, has an interesting account of a meeting with Isabella in his book Indian And its Native Princes published in 1875.

The presence of the Bourbons in India, however, goes further back. The very first, Jean Philippe, landed in the court of the Emperor Akbar in 1560. A cousin of Henri IV (the first Bourbon to rule France) and son of the constable of Pau in southern France, Jean fled his country after spilling the blood of a Gascon kin in what was a duel of honour. He escaped to Portugal, was captured by Turkish pirates, sold to the Otto-man emperor Suleiman the Magnificent, and set sail for India in the company of Abyssinian Christians.

Here the enterprising Gascon secured an audience with the emperor Akbar who impressed by his adventures appointed him commander of guns and sought his help in reorganising the army. Akbar got him married to a Portuguese beauty, Juliana Mascrenhas, sister of his Christian wife Maria. Akbar granted him a large estate in Shergarh, south of Delhi, where successive generations of Bourbons till Salvador lived in luxury.

The sacking of Delhi by the Persian plunderer Nadir Shah in 1740 forced Salvador to move to Gwalior where he was made quiledar of the impregnable Gwalior Fort. And when the Fort fell to the Mahratta chieftain Mahadji Scindia, packed his bags for safe and serene Bhopal. The Bourbon fortunes plummeted soon after the ascension of Shahjahan Begum in 1868. This was largely due to the influence of her second husband and consort, Syed Saddiq Hassan, a fanatical Wahabi who virtually pauperised the Bourbons by confiscating all their jagirs granted since the days of Shahzad Masih.

This left the clan with no choice than to earn their livelihood by eking out a middle class existence as doctors, priests, nurses, or teachers. The blackballing of the Bourbons continued during the reign of Sultan Jahan Begum despite her secular mindset. Balthazar feels the Bourbons paid a heavy price for their great-grandfatherís ìaffairî with the venerable Qudsia. Contemporaries thought it a vile conspiracy by a Christian to defile the reputation of a devout and just Muslim ruler. Around 1960, he says, they also lost possession of the Lakherapura palace in a family partition. The palace was later demolished.

Circumstances also compelled his father Salvador to earn his livelihood by taking up the legal profession into whose shoes has stepped the son.To most Bhopalis, the Bourbons remain nothing more than a slightly reclusive family (admission into their precinct wasnít easy) with a surname which closely rhymes with bon-bon. Blame it on their down to earth, unpretentious ways, unlike the des-cendants of the Nawabs.

But history, as the Pakistani diplomat Shaharyar Khan (great-grandson of Sultan Jahan Begum) once half-jokingly remarked, could have been tantalisingly different. Were it not for Balthazarís backing, Qudsia would never have been Begum, and the East India Company might have ended up appointing Shahzad Masih nawab instead. In which case Bhopal might have been added to the list of Bourbon possessions
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