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US 209 - PSAG Vs PFE

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Posted 04/06/2021   11:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add widglo46 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
rogdcam -
Quote:
Problem is that those lots you pointed out have new certs that preclude the lots being placed on extension.


Actually, Kelleher does allow extensions on lots with PSAG certs even if they are less than 5 years old because the PSAG isn't on their lists of accepted certifying entities. The same is true for Siegel, but not for all auction houses. Policies can change abruptly, so always check the Terms and Conditions of the auction house before bidding.
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Posted 04/06/2021   11:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Oops, my fault, I mis-read some of the thread as it wandered among topics and off topics. Please disregard this entry.
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Edited by John Becker - 04/07/2021 12:33 am
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Posted 04/07/2021   12:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
John - The 209 was an eBay sale.
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Posted 04/07/2021   12:21 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Lorry - It is interesting that Kelleher has no limits on extension requests for PSAG certified items as you point out but utilizes PSAG for the lion's share of new cert work. Must be a quick turnaround, discounts or both. The omission of PSAG from the certifying bodies list kind of says that they are not at the same level as PF or PSE in Kelleher's mind.
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Posted 04/07/2021   02:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamps101 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That is bizarre. It would be like my car dealer recommending I take my car in for repairs only to them to ensure accurate warranty work then finding out when I took my car to them, they outsourced the repair. Alright then...

I'm not even remotely an expert on a lot of the grading and expertizing pieces but even I can see the one stamp has what looks like pen cancels and is used. For shame.
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Edited by stamps101 - 04/07/2021 02:43 am
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Posted 04/07/2021   10:48 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What makes you think they use PSAG for their own certs? I haven't seen PSAG certs from them so much except in this specific auction. Mightn't they have come with the collection?
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Posted 04/08/2021   12:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I consistently see newly issued PSAG certs throughout Kelleher's Flagship auctions. It jumps right out at me. Most of the certs are brand spanking new such as all of the 2021 certs in Sale 755. Those are House certs, not owner certs.
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Posted 04/08/2021   09:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add widglo46 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It's hard to know what Kelleher's strategy is in respect to certs and the PSAG. My guess is that the reason PSAG is not on their list of accepted expertizing entities is simply because they failed to update their "Conditions of Sale". Currently that document doesn't even directly address the process of extensions except to state that lots with certificates from recognized entities within 7 years of the date of the sale are sold "as is".

In the past, Kelleher most likely granted me extensions on lots with PSAG certs because they want to keep me as a customer, and not for any legal reason. Auction houses are, after all, basically just dealers with a different selling and marketing plan, and they want satisfied customers.

It's no secret that the bane of all auction houses are "bad certs" coming back from extensions, and I only wish we could hear some of the conversations that have gone one between auction house managers and people at the PF and PSE because of these. If the auction houses are finding the PSAG easier to work with, and buyers are willing to accept PSAG certificates, we may see that entity used increasingly.

For those interested, here are the paragraphs relevant to authentication in Kelleher's "Conditions of Sale":

EXHIBITION AND INSPECTION OF LOTS; QUALITY AND AUTHENTICITY
7. (c) Quality. Any lot which a purchaser considers to be incorrectly described may be returned to Kelleher within two weeks of its receipt by such purchaser ("Returning Purchaser"), provided, however, that the same is received by Kelleher within four weeks of the date of the auction; however, Kelleher may, in its discretion, refuse acceptance of such returned lot. If an opinion of a mutually acceptable authority is desired, the period of time within which a lot must be received by Kelleher will be extended in accordance with Condition of Sale 8. In the event that a dispute cannot be resolved by reference to a mutually acceptable authority, and Kelleher thereupon undertakes to re-offer the lot with a description identical to the description disputed, the Returning Purchaser shall be liable for the deficiency, if any, between the proceeds of the sale to the Returning Purchaser and the proceeds of a sale to a subsequent purchaser, as well as for all costs and expenses of the resale, including commission, and all incidental damages.
(g) Lots with existing Certificates from the Philatelic Foundation (PF) or Professional Stamp Experts (PSE), British Philatelic Association (BOA), Royal Philatelic Society of London (RPSL), Vincent Graves Green Foundation (VGG) or any other expertizing authority as recognized by the International Association of Philatelic Experts (AIEP), for items within their specialty and dated within the last seven (7) years from the date of sale, will be offered and sold on an "as-is" basis and as so stated on the certificate. Such lots may not be returned for any reason, including but not limited to a contrary verbal or written opinion or certificate.
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