Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

US Transpacific Seapost 1927 - Unknown Registered Cancel

 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 8 / Views: 223Next Topic  
Valued Member
Germany
37 Posts
Posted 04/18/2021   4:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add grisuhh62 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi,
I bought a letter canceled on board the ship "Pres. Harding" from the Transpacific Seapost, dated 27.01.1927. It was registered and it was canceled with a registered cancel and above is stamped "FROM SEA POST". My problem now is that this cancel is not recorded in the literature about this Seapost. I do not know whether this cancel is stamped on board of the ship or in the USA - it is addressed to Germany.

The scan of the front:





The back:






Do anyone know something about this marking "FROM SEA POST" together with a registered marking?

Many thanks

Juergen
Send note to Staff

Valued Member
United States
494 Posts
Posted 04/18/2021   4:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wtcrowe to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
No luck with the Cockrill pamphlet on US Sea Post Markings. You might try this society:

http://www.tpo-seapost.org.uk/tpo2/home.html
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
366 Posts
Posted 04/18/2021   4:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think there is more to the marking than you have acknowledged. I believe the manuscript "4" is part of total information offered by, "From Sea Post 4." The #4 being assigned to the SS Harding. (See Below illustration)

Now "from sea post" designations are not unique, but here it means 4 pieces of mail matter:




From: http://www.tpo-seapost.org.uk/tpo2/..._america.pdf
Killer #4
25.03.-21.04.1922 LONE STAR STATE
29.04.-30.06.1922PRESIDENT TAFT
08.07.1922-27.11.1925 PRESIDENT HARDING

Seapost Clerks on the ship as of September 1926 were:
United States
Mr. William Haase
Mr. Robert G. Weaver

German
Mr. L. Kuck
Mr. H. Wulf

And in March 1927:
Seapost Clerks

United States
Julius Schultz
William P. Lade

German
Max Henning
Paul Schubert
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by Parcelpostguy - 04/19/2021 3:04 pm
Valued Member
Germany
37 Posts
Posted 04/19/2021   07:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add grisuhh62 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi,
I read again in the two publictions. Thie reg. Postmark proofs that registered mail could be posted at Seapost Offices. That is the only information in both publications. No further comments.
The reg. pstmarks shown in both books were struck on the back for documentation purposes. Like at this cover:

Front:



Back:




This cover was registered in the USA (Galveston) and got the reg. postmark as the first cover.
On the back we see the reg. postmark from the Seapost Office. These are shown and discussed in the publications and are for documentation purposes.

But still is there the cancel "FROM SEA POST". I have three possibilities:
a) fake/forgery to the detriment of the collector
b) Cancel from a collector as many wrote something with pencil on the cover to remember
c) this cancel is realy stamped together with the reg. postmark at the Seapost Office

I prefer "b".

What is Your opinion?

Regards

Juergen
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
789 Posts
Posted 04/19/2021   08:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just an uninformed question: what is the relationship between Transpacific Sea Post and Sea Post between the US and Germany?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Learn More...
United Kingdom
114 Posts
Posted 04/19/2021   11:03 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add usinbritain to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hallo Juergen, your first cover is transatlantic (US/German) seapost (not transpacific) and in my opinion a rare use of the on-board Registered boxed handstamp and the clerk's straightline with a manuscript 4 (assigned to SS "President Harding"). Most covers with a Seapost/Reg have them as transit markings as with your second cover.

I was in regular communication with Roger Hosking, author of "Seaposts of the USA" and he only recorded one other use similar to yours, plus an on-board US French Sea Post registered and one that I found 15 years ago confirming on-board registration facilities - scanned here.

All three of these are illustrated in Roger's book.



Steve Taylor
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
USA postal history 1750s - 1950s
Surbiton, England
https://www.stephentaylor.co.uk
Your American dealer in Britain since 1995
Valued Member
Germany
37 Posts
Posted 04/19/2021   11:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add grisuhh62 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@Steve
thank You for Your correction. For sure it is US German Sepost.
I own the publication from Roger Hosking also the publications from Philip Cockrill ( No. 54, 55, 46, 47). So I know Your scanned cover.
But this cancel "FROM SEA POST" (I overlook the handwritten 4) isnt in both publications not to find and not pictured. Whether it is described I have to look again intensively.

@NSK:
Transpacific Seapost was served only from US Shipping Lines and the Offices from the USPS - the US German Seapost was a joint service between Germany and the USA on the route from New York to Hamburg/Bremen. From 1891 to 1914 (WW I) only on ships from the HAPAG (HAL) and NGL and in the Offices worked clerks from the USPS and the german Reichspost. In direction to New York it was a german Office and in the other direction it was an american Office. It was relaunched 1924 till 1939 (WW II) to the same terms but there were added ships from the United Stats Line.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Learn More...
United Kingdom
114 Posts
Posted 04/19/2021   12:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add usinbritain to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Juergen,

Although I don't recall seeing another example of your "From Sea Post" handstamp it is in the same style of other Sea Post instructional markings I have seen and your cover was definitely mailed on-board the ship. There would be no reason to fake that marking (the market for Sea Post material is a bit thin) I am 100% confident your cover is genuine and is a rare use.

Please report it to the TPO & Seapost Society - if you need a Society contact's email, please let me know directly as email addresses are not permitted on this Board.

Steve
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
USA postal history 1750s - 1950s
Surbiton, England
https://www.stephentaylor.co.uk
Your American dealer in Britain since 1995
Valued Member
United States
366 Posts
Posted 04/19/2021   4:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The applied in the Sea Post marking of registered (as in the OP's and Steve's covers) or Sea Post Due marking are difficult and may yield new finds. Even in the present time, this far removed, new finds such as in the OP can be made.

Additionally I see no manuscript notations on the OP cover which would indicate alteration by a collector. Even the manuscript 4 is fully in keeping with the other aspects of the cover as well as a proper addition. On the reverse, the poorly erased pencil text seems to have been done solely to correct the return address. Since mailed on board, it needed to be returned on board if an issue arose before landing.

As my SCF name implies, I chase parcel post and have done so since 1983. During that time I had contact with other serious students of the issue. During those years I found sea post items which were a surprise. The first, a Japan-Shanghai sea post posted on board cover with US parcel post stamp entering the US mails in Shanghai. Even Michael Karen did not believe such could exist until he had it in hand. Around the same time a Sea Post Due marking in cover surfaced with parcel post postage due stamps. And lastly, just last month a US-French Sea Post parcel post usage surfaced. That is the first such example with parcel post I have seen, nor was such in Doolittle's holdings, nor known by Gobie, Schlesinger, Bothamley or Ward when I personally spoke with them over the years about sea post material. New material can and does surface.

Here is the US-French find:







[Hello Steve. I am still hoping you get that discovery cover to sell to me as previously discussed. Dan ]
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
  Previous TopicReplies: 8 / Views: 223Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2021 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2021 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.2 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05