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Is It Time For Digital Albums?

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Posted 05/04/2021   06:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
My question - Do you have to actually own the stamps in the digital album?

If so, there is still storage materials used.

The digital album concept (a very broad statement) includes possible formal digital exhibiting where ownership seems to be a paramount aspect.

I have scanned my album pages so meets my basic needs. I not plan to extend this by indexing them so they can be searched and retrieved.

Now, I am all for digital references to assist with identification and general information.


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Al
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Posted 05/04/2021   12:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add PMStamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Angore is basically asking the same question that I asked yesterday. What happens to the stamps that are being digitized as far as storage is concerned? Are they kept in envelopes, 102 cards, Vario pages, stock books, etc.? Hopefully, no one is considering disposing of the stamp once it has been digitized, through sales or otherwise. This would lead to Angore's question about whether you actually need to own the stamp. A very good question.

As stamp collectors, we are/were actually doing that. Collecting physical stamps and housing/displaying them in some physical form. By digitizing them, what are we collecting - digital images. That could be obtained by anyone from thousands of images on the Internet to create a digital album. So for anyone to be proud of what they have they still would need the physical collection stored by some means, so again what is the point?
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Posted 05/04/2021   12:48 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
...so again what is the point?

Sharing. Archiving.
Don
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Posted 05/04/2021   12:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I must admit that there is nothing like an actual album to take off the shelf and leaf through when a friend shows interest in seeing what you like to do in your free time. It sure beats whipping out your smart phone and scrolling through some computer files. I can imagine showing off a virtual album and your friend asking, "Is this for real?"

OTOH, if you want to show off your collection to distant friends, it would be nice to give them a URL, or attach a file to an e-mail, with everything in its place and pages formatted to your desire.

Perhaps a virtual album isn't an either/or affair, but simply a '2nd' (or 2nd, 3rd, 4th) album, with its own properties and purposes.

I have Big Blues, which I use for fun (and nothing is scanned or indexed) - the bulk of the value of my collection is in the bank. I have my valuable items scanned, saved, and indexed, but they are only available during banking hours and via a cartrip. 90% of my value is in US stamps, with the balance in just a couple of other countries that I enjoy pursuing. My valuables are kept in Lighthouse plastic (acetate?) stockcards, individually. So, yes, I have a storage 'system' that isn't resource-free. Perhaps the idea of a virtual album isn't about the resources that will be saved. Maybe it is simply about having another aspect to philately. Imagine being able to quickly and easily change your album (relative to an actual album, anyway) because it is simply time for a new look. Or how about the ability to have multiple albums for the same material, each with its own purpose or appearance - one with in-depth write-ups for a certain crowd, and a simple layout (stamps displayed with years, name of issue, but not much more) for other crowds - a simple and clean layout which accentuates the stamps.

I think there is a place in philately for virtual albums. They aren't for everybody, but neither is plating or cover collecting. It is just another aspect that others may wish to pursue. In all honesty, it could be a great way to open up philately to a whole new demographic. Just for those reasons, I think it is inevitable.
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Posted 05/04/2021   1:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Some collectibles are just so non-tactile. You really only look at a stamp. Not much to play with unlike a 69 Charger.
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Posted 05/04/2021   1:31 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I get together with a group of collectors for lunch each week (we continued to meet even throughout the last year too). We do a 'show and tell' which often includes some rare (and costly) items. We sometimes do not bring the actual material but rather scan and use color printouts. This prevents damage, lose, theft, etc. And quite frankly the stories/education/background that accompanies the items is better than the material itself.

I attend a number of online club meetings, and of course use digital images to display the materials. When we have a local 'in-person' meetings, I could stand there in front of the 50-foot room and hold up a cover or postal history item to show as I talk. No one can really see it and if I pass it around it might get damaged. The better solution is to scan it and display it on the front 18 foot screen and the 4 large flat panels hanging from the ceiling.

And of course, sharing material across disparate physical locations is simple using digital images. I would never want to 'give up' my stamps and covers but logistically sharing these things is challenging and can be risky. And of course, paper is ephemeral; eventually all of our stamps and covers will become dust while digital representations (bits and bytes) can exist forever. <shrugs> I do not see digital as a threat to anything, it is a tool like a pair of tongs or stock book. Technology has brought great change to our hobby; I think that it has put a big, positive dent in the philatelic universe.
Don
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Posted 05/04/2021   1:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Climber Steve to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Slightly off-topic, but what about stamp show exhibits? The stamps, covers, etc. in exhibits aren't necessarily in an album, but are part of peoples' collections. There are a number of websites that retain scanned in digital exhibits; some examples being the APS, AAPE, Collectors Club of New York, Richard Frajola, etc.

I'm slowly working up my first ever show exhibit, and hope to take it to a couple of shows in Spring, 2022. Without boring people with details, it's in an area that supposedly has never been exhibited in the US, or at least not in recent times. So, I would definitely get it scanned in, and submitted to a couple digital storage sites, before breaking it up.
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Posted 05/04/2021   1:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add PMStamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Don - I totally agree with your 2 points. Very beneficial and sometimes a necessity for insurance purposes.

Mootermutt987 - I think you nailed it when you said it should not be an either/or affair.

I guess where I didn't understand the point is when this thread was heading down the environmental path of saving trees by eliminating albums, eliminating the use of plastics and steel. My point was that if you own the physical stamp you still need to store it somehow. If you don't have the physical stamp, only a digital image, you really have nothing other than a picture of something that someone else owns.
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Posted 05/04/2021   3:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with the ownership issue, PMstamp.

If you own a stamp, do you own exclusive rights to an image of that stamp? Of course not. Siegel's has decades of images of stamps that they no longer own, if they ever did. I think the idea of the 'ethical' use of images is up to the individual. I suspect there will be those who grab an image of a stamp they want to own and will 'mount' it in their digital album. Do they attribute it to the real owner, or do they (through omission) imply that it is their's? The issue of full disclosure, though, is an issue already with physical stamps. I have participated in a thread here on SCN where the OP has created fakes of some high value items, presumably because he will never own the real things, but was not indicating on them that they are fakes. Then he was seen selling these on eBay. After much chiding, it appears that he is now marking his stamps as reproductions. People will try anything - it is up to them to do the right thing. Not everybody does. I don't think that's a reason to eliminate an entire facet of collecting, though.

ETA: I suspect we could debate whether or not it is ethical to 'mount' a stamp in digital album that is not owned by the 'mounter'. Is that predicated on disclosure? Is it predicated by intent? It is one thing to do such a thing for one's personal collection, but another thing completely if it is part of some type of exhibit. Which raises another question - will digital albums ever be allowed in exhibits? Under what conditions? All things that need to be hammered out.
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Edited by mootermutt987 - 05/04/2021 3:45 pm
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Posted 05/04/2021   3:49 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"Under the Federal Copyright Act of 1976, photographs are protected by copyright from the moment of creation. According to the U.S. Copyright Office, the owner of the work is generally the photographer or, in certain situations, the employer of the photographer."

Siegel owns the images (I assume that somewhere in their T&Cs they state that they generate images when you submit auction items).
Don
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Posted 05/04/2021   6:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add johnsim03 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
These copyright issues are interesting to me. I have "read" that USPS stamp images are subject to copyright (-post 1969), and I am wondering what the philatelic implications are. I am confident that not only USA stamp images are copyrighted...

Not to hijack the thread. Would the publisher of a digital stamp album (or printed one for that matter) have to obtain a license from the proper authority in order to strictly comply with the law?

John
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Posted 05/04/2021   7:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rgstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I technically own digital images of my stamps and they are non fungible
Put in block chain and you have NFT?
You can copy my image and use them but I am the true owner


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Posted 05/04/2021   7:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
"Under the Federal Copyright Act of 1976, photographs are protected by copyright from the moment of creation. According to the U.S. Copyright Office, the owner of the work is generally the photographer or, in certain situations, the employer of the photographer."

Siegel owns the images (I assume that somewhere in their T&Cs they state that they generate images when you submit auction items).


Thank you, Don. I think my post twisted what I was trying to say (The post did that, huh?). A stamp and an image of that stamp are two different things. Both are owned, but not necessarily by the same entity. And ownership of one doesn't change hands when ownership of the other changes.

Even though a person can own an image (and put it into his digital album) is there any 'rule' stating that he should own the stamp in order to do that? I doubt it. But... it sure would be nice if the owner/creator of a digital album would indicate whether or not he owns the stamps in the images in that album. It just feels like 'cheating' otherwise. At least people that fill their real albums with a fake set of Zepps (because they know they will never afford a real one) do so knowing that the fake set is distinguishable from the real deal. Ditto for photos of Zepps put in a real album.
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Posted 05/05/2021   06:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The question of copyright primarily comes into play primarily when someone is trying to enforce it for loss of revenue. For example, I have had images taken off SCF to be used in publications on at two occasions that I know about without asking me. But it is not like my images would be in the Getty images portfolio and then used by the USPS.
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Al
Edited by angore - 05/05/2021 07:00 am
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Posted 05/05/2021   07:20 am  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
How long before repeated scanning by various owners down the line causes fading of the stamp's colors due to the scanner light?


Given the brief amount of time the stamp is exposed to the bright light of the scanner, it would take thousands of scans for there to be any detrimental effect.
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