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A Skull Fancy Cancel To General Thomas Kane-What Am I Looking At?

 
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Posted 05/08/2021   7:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add oldboldandbrash to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Recently while going through a lot of metered envelopes I came across these two covers. Both are addressed to General Thomas L Kane, and one has a very pretty skull cancel. My question is this: are there other examples of this specific cancel? I can't find any online or on this forum. Would anyone perhaps like to take a guess as to the year the cover is from, also? Only the Astor Hotel addressed envelope says 1881, the skull cancelled one is devoid of year. I suppose I might as well ask also, what's its worth? Especially considering the condition...

Cute though, right?




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Posted 05/08/2021   10:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add oldboldandbrash to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Perhaps, but I was hoping to see this one specifically. Skull and crossbones is a relatively common yet unique special cancel, as such I guess I was wondering if I'd see another of this particular one.
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Posted 05/09/2021   12:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Is there another reason to suggest the Cole book, since this cancel is not in there?

Add: See below.
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Edited by John Becker - 05/09/2021 12:52 am
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Posted 05/09/2021   12:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add redwoodrandy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I erroneously showed this book and these sites and restored the post.





https://siegelauctions.com/lot_grd....lledfrom=lkp

https://stampsmarter.org/features/F...ls_Home.html






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Edited by redwoodrandy - 05/09/2021 01:58 am
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Posted 05/09/2021   12:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
redwoodrandy,
Please do not delete posts after other comments have been made relating to your posts. It makes the subsequent replies impossible to follow. Thanks.
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Posted 05/09/2021   12:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Siegel Sale #814, 28 September 1999, Lot 2629:

Negative Skull & Crossbones. Perfectly struck large fancy cancel ties 3c Green (158) on Harrisburg Pa. Auditor General's Office corner card cover to Philadelphia, matching "Harrisburg Pa. Nov. 28" cds, receiving backstamp, cover slightly reduced at R.

It is further listed that this cover had a 1990 PF Certificate.

Sold for $3500.

_____________________________________________________________________

See: http://stampauctionnetwork.com/y/y106359.cfm Scroll down to Lot 1531 to see an image from a Siegel Auction #1063, December 19-20 2013, on SAN. Lot sold for $5750 and is a thing of beauty. Has a (same??) 1990 PF Certificate.


Value as is? Not more than 10% (standard damaged value deduction estimate) unless there are eager buyers of a damaged example. It is clearly a "winner" cancel. Covered the purchase price of the lot of metered covers I bet.

It is so rare, even in this condition you may want a PF Cert. The strike seems about 97% complete with very, very clean ink.
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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 05/09/2021 01:36 am
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Posted 05/09/2021   01:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Does it concern members, that the OldBold cover has square corners
in the fancy cancel, whereas the auction has rounded. ?
Curious.
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Posted 05/09/2021   01:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"Teeth" are different as well, 3 verses 4.
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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 05/09/2021 01:52 am
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Posted 05/09/2021   01:52 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
All good, I noted in the Auction notes, there exist different varieties.

There was a major fail with the inkwell, on the cover.
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Edited by rod222 - 05/09/2021 01:54 am
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Posted 05/09/2021   05:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The variation from those recorded above doesn't bother me. The fancies wore out quickly so if the creator liked the design, he (likely a he at this time) would create another. The style is similar enough the the Siegel sale one including a hoe(?) and rake/key/flail(?) instad of two crossed sticks or bones. Also, forgers don't ruin their own work usually since they are out for the most money possible and can sucker in more victims with a flawless cover.

So, what stamp is on there? If it's #184, then it's from somewhere between 1879 to perhaps 1881 when #207 was issued midyear.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 05/09/2021 05:34 am
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Posted 05/09/2021   05:45 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just to offer an idea of the scope and breadth of 'skull' cancels...I am finish up digitizing 70 years of the US Cancellation Club periodicals and have built a master index for them. Doing a search across the back issues reveals a total of 38 back issues that contain skull cancels.
Don
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Posted 05/09/2021   08:50 am  Show Profile Check orstampman's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add orstampman to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Wow! Awesome effort, Don. I am really looking forward to your compilation - that is a great set of periodicals to bring together. If there is something I can help with, let me know.

-Dave
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Posted 05/09/2021   11:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add oldboldandbrash to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@ParcelPostGuy oh WOW thank you SO MUCH! Yes that's her, that's the cancel :') This is actually far more interesting than even I thought. Would the subject matter increase the value? Considering it was written to a General? I'm just glad whoever tore into this puppy didn't also mess with the cancel. Yes it most certainly covered the cost of the lot (20$ for a shipping box full of junky meters!).

Would you really suggest a cert for it if it might only be worth 10% of whatever it perhaps last sold for? How much would that even cost? A hundred some dollars? At that rate I'd run the risk of making nothing if I ever did decide to sell it. Recently while meeting a dealer, we were going through books and he was looking at a cert and said "All this for a measly hundred dollar stamp?" Of course I laughed, but hundreds of dollars seems like nothing to some and everything to others!
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Edited by oldboldandbrash - 05/09/2021 12:00 pm
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Posted 05/09/2021   12:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
PF fee is 5.5% with a minimum of $27.50. That covers the first $500 in market value for this cancel; there being no catalog value for the item.

As to addressee, I see no particular significance as a general, especially well past his active military days and quite late in his life. He died in 1883. There may be draw due to the Mormon connection as he is a big deal in that history. That said, I am not a collector of those areas.
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Posted 05/09/2021   12:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add oldboldandbrash to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That's a good point about the Mormons. As I'm aware, they LOVE things relating to their history. Reminds me of that forger Mark Hofmann.
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Posted 05/11/2021   7:45 pm  Show Profile Check matttodd1's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add matttodd1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe if the sender or contents had some connection to Mormonism, then it might be interesting, but as it is, I suspect it's not more than a curiosity on that front, as he was an important defender of Mormon rights decades earlier, and I don't see any connection other than the cover is addressed to Kane. Still interesting though.
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