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Seeking Input About Imperforates

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Posted 05/29/2021   1:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add STTScott to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Lately I'fe been intrigued about imperforates, primarily non-gummed 4-blocks and pairs, and especially those issued NG. As far as collecting (as close to) XF examples, what are the things to keep in mind in terms of what's a really VG-XF example and what isn't?

I ask this because dealing with perfed stamps is one thing, but this is quite another. I also know this might be another can of worms, but I'm totally clueless on this arm of the hobby, but yet I'd like to add some reallly nice examples in theVF-XF range, but I have no clue how to basically know what's chaff and what's pretty good wheat.
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Posted 05/29/2021   2:42 pm  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You could do what the rest of the world does, ditch VGXF and all other letters and stick with "four clear margins good, three less good".
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Posted 05/29/2021   3:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add classic_paper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Don't overthink it, imperf isn't much different than to what you're accustomed. Wide margins = good.
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Posted 05/29/2021   3:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
STTScott,
Your post is very vague about what era or series you are looking at. Imperforates span the entire time of stamps. When you say ...


Quote:
especially those issued NG


I immediately think about the Farley issues of the early 1930s, in which case they are easy to acquire. Can you help pinpoint your interests a little better for us?
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Posted 05/29/2021   8:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add RXC to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
We all want the best example of a stamp at the price we are willing to pay. Use your own judgment as to what you find attractive and acceptable. I have seen some stamps that would grade very highly regarding centering which had less than clear impressions or dull colors. For myself, I would prefer a crisp, clear image and fresh color to "perfect" centering. Sellers use of terms: average, fine, very fine, etc. vary greatly. Some grade conservatively, some do not. Look at as many examples of the stamp you are interested in, and then trust yourself to pick those you find to be best in your price range. I know I have stamps in my collection that I probably would not buy today. It doesn't bother me. It tells me that I have learned something over the years.
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Posted 05/29/2021   11:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There some nice imperfs here: http://goscf.com/t/77489&whichpage=1

Those are "eye-ball" good. Now follows a official graded stamp at the highest possible grade:


#340 Imperfs with PSE CERTIFICATE (Never Hinged) PSE Grade 100J




And in case you don't believe your eyes, here is the cert:





May I suggest an imperf a little less invasive of its neighbors?

But here is an ungraded set of Parks, NGAI:
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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 05/29/2021 11:26 pm
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Posted 05/29/2021   11:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Richard Frajola to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I was taught many years ago that a very fine imperforate stamp should have margins equal to one-half the distance separating adjacent stamps. That guidance has always served me well in my collecting of classic imperforates (pre 1870) of the world.

(I forget if that corresponds to Robson Lowe's definition, Edwin Mueller's definition, or if both of them defined very fine in the same language.)
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Edited by Richard Frajola - 05/29/2021 11:54 pm
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Posted 05/29/2021   11:49 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:


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Edited by revenuecollector - 05/29/2021 11:51 pm
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Posted 05/30/2021   04:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add STTScott to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is where having someone in person to discuss such things with comes in handy. Toobad the number of local stamp shops and clubs have pretty much disappeared these days.

>> You could do what the rest of the world does, ditch VGXF and all other letters and stick with "four clear margins good, three less good".<<

Great. But whose margins are whose, especially when it comes to the middle of blocks or sheets, as opposed to ones on the end where you can see how near or far the actual impression is to the edge, which is one of those margins -- The impression you're looking at, or the impression next to it, since there are no perfs to show whose margins are whose Or are there other factors that come into play that says what's well-centered or what's not all that great because of other issues when it comes to imperfs?

Hence the reason for my question. I could look at a block of 4-6 impressions and see the same blank area between them and think all's great, when actually it may not be because I have no gauge the same as perfs provide.

So again, it's Cluelessville for me.

I have a block of imperF NGAI #754 and #766A that I'll post later when I get some good light as examples. I got 'em because I liked 'em even tho they're nothing special value-wise as far as I knew, and still don't know. I just know I've raken a shine to NGAI imperfs but have no clue how to eyeball them in terms of what's a good thing and what's just junk.
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Edited by STTScott - 05/30/2021 05:01 am
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Posted 05/30/2021   04:57 am  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Frankly, the concept of "well-centred" for imperforated stamps is inane. The US seems to be the only place where this concept, with the added silliness of numerical grading, is applied, leading in the worst case, to the mutilations shown above. Why not just look for four clear margins if you can find them and be happy?
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Posted 05/30/2021   05:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add STTScott to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@GeoffHa said >> Frankly, the concept of "well-centred" for imperforated stamps is inane. The US seems to be the only place where this concept, with the added silliness of numerical grading, is applied, leading in the worst case, to the mutilations shown above. Why not just look for four clear margins if you can find them and be happy? <<

First, that was the reason for me original questipn: When dealing with imperfs, WHERE are the margins, since there are no perfs to define the margins?

Second, Well, those of us in the USA don't make the long-established rules. We just follow 'em. You may have a good point, but all in all, I think our rules about centering and margins and grading have gone a bit to discourage the riffraff and peddlers of overpriced garbage, more or less.

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Edited by STTScott - 05/30/2021 05:10 am
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Posted 05/30/2021   05:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add STTScott to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@Parcelpostguy and @revenuecollector: Excellent examples. But a bad off-center perf job on those -- especially that Gem 100 -- would totally ruin the party on that one, no? Granted, I understand NGAI issues may have a different standard among collectors, but still, if your examples were badly perfed, they wouldn't be so awesome, no?

And that's sorta my original point/question @Parcelpostguy and @revenuecollector: Is the fact that they're not perfed make them more attractivesince there's really no way to judge what the margins might be in relation to the impressions right next to and above/below them?
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Edited by STTScott - 05/30/2021 05:32 am
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Posted 05/30/2021   05:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add STTScott to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Question for @parcelpostguy: What made you get that one graded, and did seeing something special about that one made you add it to your collection and then do that? -- especially when it comes to imperfs?
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Edited by STTScott - 05/30/2021 05:42 am
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Posted 05/30/2021   06:14 am  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The point is that collectors, dealers and certification/grading bodies in the US have made the "rules" that they choose to follow, hence the ugly, destroyed blocks shown above. But they can refuse to go along with them.
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Posted 05/30/2021   11:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dudley to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The problem with imperforate stamps and margins, especially when they are used as criteria for grading, is that these margins can be manipulated at any time. If you find an imperforate example with four margins but of unequal size, just take your scissors and even them out, right? Or else take a multiple and butcher it to make an example that includes parts of other stamps at all four sides, such as the National Parks examples shown above. That being the case, what is the point of grading imperforates based on margins? To get back to the question in the OP, I second Mr. Frajola's statement: a VF-XF example of an imperforate stamp would have four clear margins of roughly equal size. Margins that cut into adjoining stamps in my mind are a detraction, especially if it is clear that this was done deliberately.
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Posted 05/30/2021   5:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Question for @parcelpostguy: What made you get that one graded, and did seeing something special about that one made you add it to your collection and then do that? -- especially when it comes to imperfs?


Sir, you insult me to think I would submit a stamp for grading; but to think I would trim imperforate stamps in the manner shown would have resulted in a required honor saving duel if this was the 18th or very early 19th Century.







As I posted in the tread about gems: http://goscf.com/t/77489
Quote:
For me, "gem" examples are the small, P2A (small dies made for exhibition in the model post office at the Panama Pacific International Exhibition) and large die proofs, wide to huge white space surrounding the image and none of the pesky holes. Plus they are in the same pricing range as some of the NH stamps with "boardwalk margins."



Here is what I am speaking of as to wide margins on the P2A material.
(full disclosure: the illustrations are not of my set(s) as I have had mine since before digital cameras/scanner and something called the internet. Phil Bansner and Stanley Piller are to thank for my set )




If you use Seigel's Power Search, you will find PSE 100J certified USED parcel post and parcel post postage due stamps which each sold for more than my purchase price for their corresponding P2a value. Ill take the proof every time.



Now this also allows for one special benefit. If you don't like how the stamp design looked as issued, with some, you can pick a different design:

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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 05/30/2021 5:35 pm
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