Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

Who The Heck Is Expertizing US Revenues For Pse?

Next Page    
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 19 / Views: 1,449Next Topic
Page: of 2
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
5308 Posts
Posted 07/13/2021   07:45 am  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add revenuecollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I had read somewhere that PSE is doing all expertizing inhouse now rather than sending material out to Eric, Richard, and other recognized revenue experts. Well, that certainly appears to be the case.

These two "genuine" certs are egregious.

If you truly want valid opinions and certs that actually mean a whit in the marketplace when it comes to U.S. revenues, for the love of everything holy, do NOT send them to PSE.

Good grief.

For those not well versed in U.S. revenues:

R53a. The left margin cut so far into the design, combined with the jaggedness of the left- and right-margin cuts is a DEAD giveaway that this is a cut down part perf (R53b).

R66b. This one is worse than the first. That color shade is clearly a late state printing, produced LOOOOOOONG after imperfs and part perfs were printed. An oversized misperf that has been trimmed. Also the paper type is wrong. As with the first stamp, see the jaggedness of the top and bottom margin cuts... another giveaway.










Hey! Maybe I can get a clean PSE cert on my similar example, on the "Fakes & Forgeries" page of my website:











Send note to Staff
Edited by revenuecollector - 07/13/2021 07:49 am

Pillar Of The Community
United States
564 Posts
Posted 07/13/2021   08:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jconey to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Wow. I have had some disagreements with PSE before on false positives. I'm - a little - relieved that others are seeing issues too... but really find it a depressing state of affairs!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
7619 Posts
Posted 07/13/2021   08:46 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
To my knowledge, PSE has been doing everything in house for many years now.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
639 Posts
Posted 07/13/2021   09:41 am  Show Profile Check 1typesetter's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 1typesetter to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I also saw these listings and thought there's no way these are genuine.

Very disappointing news. I recently was trusting PSE more so than the PF because I was of the belief that Eric, Richard et al were still expertising for them.

I'll have to now go back and look at some recent certs I got from them.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
639 Posts
Posted 07/13/2021   09:52 am  Show Profile Check 1typesetter's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 1typesetter to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just to follow up. I just looked at the PSE website and they list their expertizing staff. If these experts are not being used, then in my opinion this is false advertising.

I could also argue that the experts should be listed on the certificates like they used to be.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
5308 Posts
Posted 07/13/2021   10:02 am  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I could also argue that the experts should be listed on the certificates like they used to be.


I *WOULD* argue (and have) that they should be listed. But the organizations or the expertizers are presumably afraid of personal repercussions of bad opinions. I don't think that hiding behind anonymity is the answer though. If you are confident in your expertise, you shouldn't be afraid to sign your name to an opinion. If you aren't, then you shouldn't be expertizing IMO... and the organizations whose names are on the certs owe it to collectors, dealers, etc. to be fully transparent.

With APEX, if you are an APS member, you can inquire who the experts were on any cert and the APS will tell you. I don't know whether any of the other expertizing bodies will do the same.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by revenuecollector - 07/13/2021 10:04 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
639 Posts
Posted 07/13/2021   10:10 am  Show Profile Check 1typesetter's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 1typesetter to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I totally agree. Let's just say that if I received a certificate signed by Eric or Richard I would be a whole lot more confident in the opinion than I would be if it was signed by Joe Blow.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
7121 Posts
Posted 07/13/2021   11:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Based upon what I have seen throughout my time on this forum I would go to folks like Dan and Bart for opinions rather than the expertizing bodies.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
5308 Posts
Posted 07/13/2021   12:20 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
... recognizing that those opinions are worth exactly what you pay for them, and that any schmuck on the Internet can give an opinion.

I consider myself a specialist, but not an expert. Nor do I play one on TV.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
564 Posts
Posted 07/13/2021   1:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jconey to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
1typesetter and revenuecollector. I agree that the expert should be denoted on the certificate. If they are afraid of reprisals, than assign each a code (like the old telephone operators) so that the public can see the consistency (good or bad) from an individual "expert". Feedback/questions could then be addressed to that particular "expert" without divulging their name.

e.g. exp123@gradingmatters.com
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
520 Posts
Posted 07/13/2021   3:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wtcrowe to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A check of PSE Experts list shows that Eric and Richard are listed as experts they use. My name is on there, but I have not seen anything from PSE in more than 18 months. I think that the last time was December 2019. Scott should be at Westpex the end of this month and at APS in August. Perhaps someone should talk to him and find out what happened.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
750 Posts
Posted 07/13/2021   3:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revenuermd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The three consultants with the American Philatelic Expertising service (APEX) that examine U.S. revenues are Eric Jackson, Richard Friedberg, and me. Sometimes I see items first, sometimes Eric sees them first, and sometimes Richard sees them first. I submit that this is a very wise practice so that no one person becomes the "expert" and everyone falls in line with the first examiner. And, yes, we don't always completely agree with each other.

We come to our personal conclusions based on the actual stamps that we can examine. Scans as the ones we see on this site are not adequate. In fact, if the owner leaves portions of hinges and other debris on the reverse side, we occasionally cannot render an opinion.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Ron Lesher
Edited by revenuermd - 07/14/2021 07:42 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2758 Posts
Posted 07/13/2021   7:22 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I get the color argument and I get if the stamp is too narrow or too short, but please explain why , but please explain why "the jaggedness of the left- and right-margin cuts is a DEAD giveaway that this is a cut down part perf". Why can not a real imperf have "jagged" margin cuts?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
5308 Posts
Posted 07/13/2021   8:02 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
but please explain why "the jaggedness of the left- and right-margin cuts is a DEAD giveaway that this is a cut down part perf". Why can not a real imperf have "jagged" margin cuts?


Jagged cuts are hesitation marks, typically found when people are trying to cut/trim along a row of perforations as close as they can get (to maximize margins) without hitting the scallops.

In actual usage, that's not how someone would cut. Look at genuine imperfs. The overwhelming majority are smooth edges, single cuts, without jagged starts and stops and differing angles. The stamps were typically separated by scissor, knife, or tearing against a straight edge, none of which produce what we see in that image.

Yes, there will be inevitable exceptions to that rule, but the positioning of those margins, in conjunction with the jagged cuts, sets off alarm bells very loudly. Even without the jaggedness, the position of the margins should warn people away, but add those jagged cuts and there's no chance it's legit... again, IMO.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by revenuecollector - 07/13/2021 8:03 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
7619 Posts
Posted 07/13/2021   8:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"Jaggedness" was not really the correct term to use. The point is that the margins were cut a small distance at a time to cut them as close to the perfs as possible. No one would have cut a genuine imperf/part perf margin that way just to put the stamp on a document to pay a tax.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
5308 Posts
Posted 07/13/2021   8:11 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe "wandering in the cuts" or "large number of small cuts as opposed to one or two long cuts" would have been better descriptors.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous TopicReplies: 19 / Views: 1,449Next Topic  
Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2021 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2021 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.55 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05