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Why Do People Get Into Pre-Live Auction Bidding Wars?

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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 07/18/2021   5:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Then somebody will make a jump or shutout bid (depending on their intention) to $300. It may be designed to stop everyone else from bidding, or intended to cut to the chase and just take bidding to a (legit/more legit) level where there may be only one other serious competitor.


When an agent is present (even via telephone) on the floor, the agent must jump bid when the agent is carrying more than one bidder for a lot. The open bid my be $100, but the agent's high bidder must be at $500 (one increment over the agent's lower bidder's high bid) to win current high bid at that time. It is done to save time, not intimidate.


Quote:
The only thing this behavior "chases" is money out of the winner's pockets.


Not everyone has bottomless pockets. For those on a budget who may do limit bidding (e.g. keep my winning bids total under $5000) will find it in their interest to get a sense of the price strength of some lots before committing to the actual final bids. Likewise if I book tendered 50 bids with a limit of $10,000, only my first 15 bids may count with the remaining 35 bids being deleted as my limit was reached.

Remember lots arrive in the order arranged by the auctioneer, not in the order of my preference of lots to purchase. If I "must have" lot 5007 and I am willing to pay $15,000 for it I need to have the $15,000 at the ready. But if it sells for $2000, there goes $13,000 I could have spent on earlier lots of interest, but I can't now as they already sold.

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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 07/18/2021 6:28 pm
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Posted 07/18/2021   6:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Parcelpostguy, you need to read entire posts.

Quote:
or intended to cut to the chase and just take bidding to a (legit/more legit) level where there may be only one other serious competitor.

And an operative phrase at the end is

Quote:
where there may be only one other serious competitor.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 07/18/2021 6:10 pm
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Posted 07/18/2021   6:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dutchman1948 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Casey Magoo

I will stick my neck out and would that auction have been Sparks?
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Posted 07/18/2021   6:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@hy-brasil:

An agent with multiple bidders on the agent's book must follow the auction firm rules of bidding increments. That in no way means
Quote:
there may be only one other serious competitor.


The obligated action of the agent is not done in relationship to the number of other bidders on the floor, on the phone or on the internet nor whether any such bidder is a serious competitor. It is only reflective of the agent's book no matter the seriousness of frivolity of the bidders on the agent's book.

I use agents all of the time when I am not personally on the floor. My bids range from bottom feeding to deadly serious depending on the interest I have in the material. I also understand that game theory as applied to auctions is both interesting and complex as well as needing to be understood to perform well in auctions.
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Posted 07/18/2021   7:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rismoney to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I like to place min bids on things early for tracking purposes. If I win, awesome. I then usually get out outbid notices and determine if I really want really item at the end.

For me the thing the hardest thing to navigate is the 2 identical items at the same auction. Its super tricky to end up with the cheaper one.

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Posted 07/18/2021   8:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gmot to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I will stick my neck out and would that auction have been Sparks?


Pretty sure it would be Oakwood out of Stouffville (near Toronto), they had a 4 day auction around 6 weeks ago. Sparks was 3 days, out of Ottawa.
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Posted 07/18/2021   9:43 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Unless you know who is bidding, you don't know if they are a rational bidder (they have a fixed idea of what they are willing to pay) or if you are up against someone irrational with gotta-haveit-itis.
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Posted 07/18/2021   9:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add shermae to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just voicing an opinion- I find the concept of an "intimidation" bid to be dubious. Way back in the day when you could see bidder's identities on eBay, someone in a Yahoo email group said that when other bidders saw him place an early bid, they would in turn stop bidding because they knew he would be in big and there was no way they would beat him. He was sure this was a better way to suppress paying a higher price due to competition vs. placing a bid in the last moments of an auction.

Nothing I could say would convince him he was wrong, although he was.
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Edited by shermae - 07/18/2021 10:00 pm
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Posted 07/19/2021   1:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Shakey 7 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The short answer is. The individuals that are involved in the bidding war don't display self control when doing so. The impulsive behavior or desire to win the auction usually overrides the wallet.
My rules that I do my best to abide by when bidding on anything.
1) If I were the seller I wouldn't complain. It would put more shekels in my pocket and I would laugh all the way to the bank.
2) If were a bidder I would only go to my own established speed limit $ and wish silently for the best.
3) If it is something that really want then rule #2 becomes an acceptation.
4) If it is something I can't live without such as a home then I'll go to full price or maybe 10% over.
5) I don't tell anyone what it is I'm bidding on to prevent unwanted competition.
6) I don't complain if I don't win. It just wasn't meant to be.
7) Don't get buyers remorse. Nobody held a gun to my head and made me bid.
8) Pay promptly. I would expect the same.
9) Refer to rule #2
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Edited by Shakey 7 - 07/19/2021 1:48 pm
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Posted 07/19/2021   5:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Casey Magoo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, it is Oakwood Auctions. They have occasional auctions that are stamps only, or with some coins thrown in. They usually deal in art, etc. All of their processes are ridiculous. They charge US dollars for everything, even though they are on Canadian soil. When the auction is up and running they allow several minutes for each lot. That gets old in no time, but they carry on that way from morning to night. I have bought 5 or 6 lots from them but when I do I'm the only one who wanted it. They also create the starting bid which is in most cases more than I would pay at all. Some things go for 3 or 4 times more than I have seen on other US auctions. A block of 4 used Penny Blacks 'sold' there for $8000 a few months back, but I have seen it again in their more recent auctions. When it sold there was high pressure from the auctioneer. 'This is the premier item in the show guys, let's see some bids'...etc.
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Posted 07/19/2021   5:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stephen J Bukowy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I am generally in the same category as rismoney "I like to place min bids on things early for tracking purposes. If I win, awesome. I then usually get outbid notices and determine if I really want really item at the end." But in many cases, I have a maximum to spend on a given auction, so if an earlier lot doesn't go my way, I can then use that amount to increase my bid(s) on later lots.
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Posted 07/19/2021   5:29 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Pre-bidding is a fool's errand IMO, whether on eBay, SAN, or on auction house websites. You tip your hand when there is no reason to.

Also, as floortrader mentioned, "mail bid sales" or aggregation of bids across multiple platforms after the fact is an opportunity for fraud. Just such a scenario occurred earlier this year where an auction house (that I didn't trust to begin with) awarded me upwards of 20 lots, just about every stinking one at my maximum bid. Their explanation: "Oh we lowered our reserves on those lots to meet your bids; if we had kept the reserves the lots wouldn't have sold."

BOVINE EXCREMENT!

This is a sham and you're bidding against the house. We mutually agreed to sever ties as a result of this fiasco. As a result, I will never again bid in any auction that isn't a live session. Yes, there are still opportunities for fraud, but far fewer.

For all the complaints about eBay sellers and shill bidding, so many people don't realize that "established" auction houses do the same [CENSORED] thing and no one calls them out. They also tend to charge outrageous minimum shipping & handling charges, far higher than any eBay seller. At least on eBay, you know your S&H costs before you bid.

I'm sick and tired of the fake veneer that brick & mortar auction houses are painted with; as a group they're no better than eBay, Hipstamp, Delcampe, or any other online venue: They're ALL caveat emptor.
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Posted 07/19/2021   5:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Oracle of Delphi to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is an obvious point for most and one that I was well aware of at the time, but for those who are new to bidding with an auction house, make sure to factor in the buyers premium and S&H into your equation when deciding what a lot is worth. If you eventually sell that material with an auction house, there may be a sellers premium depending on who you use. So the round trip could cost 30% or so, not that most folks expect to make a profit on their collections. I recently sold my US collection through one of the well known houses with most of the material bought again through the usual houses. Due to the upswing in prices over the past year, I actually made a good profit on the material, which I wasn't expecting, but after factoring in the round trip expenses, it was a small loss. Didn't mind that a bit, since I didn't start collecting as an investment and got plenty of hours of enjoyment out of the whole endeavor. But it was a reminder that buying through the auction houses can appear to be advantageous compared with a retail dealer, but all the expenses should be taken into consideration.
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Edited by Oracle of Delphi - 07/19/2021 5:52 pm
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Posted 07/19/2021   7:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gmot to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@Casey - appreciate the thoughts on Oakwood. I looked at that auction and saw a few things I liked, but the silly starting bids, US dollars from a Cdn auction house & lack of good pictures led me to skip it. They had some weird shipping arrangement too IIRC.

~Greg
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Edited by gmot - 07/19/2021 7:17 pm
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Posted 07/19/2021   8:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Dan - I have come around to your POV vis-à-vis eBay et al vs. "traditional" auction houses.
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