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US Local Album Pages

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Valued Member

United States
6 Posts
Posted 07/19/2021   12:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add John Hildebrandt to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I'd like to download or purchase US Local stamp album pages like the one shown of a eBay auction. Thanks!

eBay item number:164962786575. I am looking for album pages with all us local stamps on them!
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Edited by John Hildebrandt - 07/19/2021 1:07 pm

Pillar Of The Community
United States
7657 Posts
Posted 07/19/2021   12:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi john. You are not giving us a whole lot of info about what you are looking for. Can you please post a link to the eBay lot?


Peter
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Valued Member
United States
335 Posts
Posted 07/19/2021   1:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add classic_paper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not aware of any currently produced preprinted pages for US locals and forerunners. To be frank, if you have the resources to fill those pages, having a set custom-designed should not be a problem.
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United States
194 Posts
Posted 07/19/2021   2:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add vinman to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The Carriers and Local Society have free PDF pages.
https://www.pennypost.org/
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United States
335 Posts
Posted 07/19/2021   3:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add classic_paper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That's great. I don't collect 'em, but glad the pages are out there.
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United States
290 Posts
Posted 07/19/2021   3:38 pm  Show Profile Check johnsim03's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add johnsim03 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
vinman -

Thank you so much for posting the link for the pages. I thought it was interesting that it includes Scott #s (!). It also includes various blank pages at the end of the file. Also interesting that there is no branding or watermark on the pages...

These will be easy to edit to taste.

John
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Posted 07/19/2021   4:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add uboatnut to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm curious how they can get away with adding the Scott numbers to their pages, as Scott has threatened other publishers with copyright infringement suits over the same thing, even when those pages were offered as free downloads. Amos holds a copyright on the Scott numbers.

Curious minds want to know.
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290 Posts
Posted 07/19/2021   4:08 pm  Show Profile Check johnsim03's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add johnsim03 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
uboatnut:

Exactly...

Which means that anyone interested in the current file (personal use only, of course) should download the file now, rather than wait for later...

John
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Posted 07/19/2021   4:47 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
...Amos holds a copyright on the Scott numbers...


Amos claims they hold a copyright and is known to send threatening cease and desist demand letters. But there are several legal precedents (which I believe have been upheld) which make the argument that there is not enough creativity in catalog numbering systems to be covered under copyright laws.

Obviously starting a sequential numbering system starting at #1 based upon time has virtual no creativity. Throwing a letter in front of a sequential number also does not meet the creativity level needed for a copyright.

If numbering systems could be copyrighted then there are millions of catalogs, parts lists, and other numbered lists which are all in violation.
Don
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United States
335 Posts
Posted 07/19/2021   6:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add classic_paper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
An important factor is that the pages are free, the CLS is not profiting from the use of Scott numbers. It's not an absolute defense, but it is a strong one. Most everyone that gets (or could get) into trouble with this sort of thing uses (or would use) the numbers on pages they created for sale: Palo, Lindner, Lighthouse, and this community's favorite, Steiner. Which is why they don't, but the CLS does, at least for now.

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Edited by classic_paper - 07/19/2021 6:31 pm
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Posted 07/19/2021   6:56 pm  Show Profile Check johnsim03's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add johnsim03 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Indeed. The Scott/Amos suit against Krause Publications is an interesting read...

Just Google it.

John
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Canada
294 Posts
Posted 07/19/2021   11:17 pm  Show Profile Check clivel's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add clivel to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
An important factor is that the pages are free, the CLS is not profiting from the use of Scott numbers. It's not an absolute defense, but it is a strong one. Most everyone that gets (or could get) into trouble with this sort of thing uses (or would use) the numbers on pages they created for sale: Palo, Lindner, Lighthouse, and this community's favorite, Steiner. Which is why they don't, but the CLS does, at least for now.

@classic_paper
You may be right, but Amos disagrees with you.
They sent me a note demanding that I remove all albums off my site with Scott numbers under threat of legal action despite the fact that every single album was completely free.

Personally, I don't think that they had a leg to stand on, doubly so as both my site and I are located in Canada, but, not being a lawyer, nor having deep pockets, I wasted no time in complying.

Clive
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AlbumEasy - Free software for creating custom stamp album pages
PSGSA - The Philatelic Society for Greater Southern Africa

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290 Posts
Posted 07/20/2021   05:00 am  Show Profile Check johnsim03's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add johnsim03 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Clive,

As would ALMOST EVERYONE else do...

We need a proper test case!

Any volunteers?

Kidding aside, those cease and desist letters can have a sobering effect on people. Which is exactly why they write them...

John
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United States
100 Posts
Posted 07/20/2021   08:38 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add percyjgp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ31.pdf

I think I would ignore the letter.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1517 Posts
Posted 07/20/2021   09:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cjpalermo1964 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A "test case" already has occurred. In 2018 I represented an individual client who is also a member of this forum and who had received a demand letter from Amos. I responded in writing with a detailed set of arguments similar to those noted by Don, including a review of the relevant case law. We did not hear from Amos again.

However, the client also elected to cease using the word "Scott" adjacent to a catalogue number, which doubtless damped down the fervor at Amos. One must differentiate, in assessing the particular facts of each matter, whether Amos could have a valid claim that the trademark "Scott" is being used in a manner that could cause consumer confusion as to source, sponsorship, licensing or association, between the producer of the pages and Amos. Posts on this forum do not often differentiate between claims concerning alleged copyright in catalog numbers, or use of trademarks—the relevant legal factors are quite different.

And since the free-versus-commercial use angle has been mentioned, anyone who wants to rely on that should be sure they are familiar (at least for disputes in the US) with the four-factor test for "fair use" that the courts apply. It's covered in Wikipedia but the application to any particular matter is almost never as simple as saying "I'm giving it away free, so it is fair use."

Chris

*If this post had contained legal advice to you, it would be followed by a bill. Anyone with specific legal concerns must consult their own attorney—I disclaim any attorney-client relationship with anyone posting here.
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Edited by cjpalermo1964 - 07/20/2021 09:07 am
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United Kingdom
5838 Posts
Posted 07/20/2021   09:46 am  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There was also a court case in France in 2004 arising from Dallay's use of Yvert numbers in its catalogues. The court found in Yvert's favour, although, after further arbitration, Yvert put in place licensing arrangements for Dallay and, presumably, others. It would be interesting to know what the licensing fees charged by Scott et al are.
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