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Help Identify New South Wales Numeral Cancellation

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 13 / Views: 294Next Topic  
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Posted 07/25/2021   04:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi folks,

This one has me stumped.

Looking at the stamp in the upright position, it gives every impression of having a 0 as the last numeral, but there is the possibility that either the first or last number is a 1.

It's a 3R16, which narrows it down.

It's not a 6, or an 8, or a 9.

Could anyone cast a fresh pair of eyes over this one and let me know what they think?

Thanks as always


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Posted 07/25/2021   04:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It's not a 6, or an 8, or a 9.

Reasoning ?
It is a 16 Ray Type 3R, correct ?
Thinking aloud,
Yours appears to be similar to the 12 ray, (J H Jervis)
in that the rays at noon, 3pm, 6pm, and 9pm are at compass points NESW.
The numeral of "0" appears large
The North south rays to not bisect the "0" so must be a double numeral
Perhaps a 10 ?

Being unusual in that the numeral is so badly smudged (yet the rays clear) perhaps others exist with similar, on cover?

Take your best guesses and search Prestige?

What locations are listed as a 3R16 numeral 10?
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Edited by rod222 - 07/25/2021 05:19 am
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Posted 07/25/2021   05:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Rod, yes it's a 3R16.

The rays are too close to the left of the numeral to be a 6 (rotate stamp 90 degrees clockwise)

The 0 is too large for it to be a loop of an 8

There is no 9 device that looks like this (I have all the 9 devices)

I've looked at every 3R16 image in Freeman's book but couldn't pinpoint one.

I agree, funny that the rays are so clear and the numeral is an inky mess!

I'll have another look at my 10s (Carcoar) tomorrow. I did look at my later material but will have a look at my stamps of a comparable age.

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Posted 07/25/2021   05:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
OK Bobby, I looked at Carcoar, the rays were solid bars.

Assuming following numeral is an 0, then here are the numerals one can check for NSW

10 CARCOAR
20 LIVERPOOL
30 CAMBDEN
40 BOMBALLA BOMBALA
50 ALBURY
60 PATERSON
70 POCKATAROO R.BLAYNEY
80 COONABARABRAN
90 GRAFTON
100 BARABA BARRABA
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Edited by rod222 - 07/25/2021 05:59 am
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Posted 07/25/2021   06:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
According to H M Campbell FRPSL (1983)
Type 3
"The rays exist in 3 segments"
I have trouble understanding him, he calls the barred numerals, "vertical bars" they look and understand as horizontal to me .

16 rays type a, figures 3.5mm to 5mm high 402-533 and 581-592
451-533 figures 6mm high

"During the currency of the Type 3, many of the earlier numbers were replaced mainly in type 3a (16 rays) and some in type 3c (12 rays)

Perhaps yours is a replaced number, I do not see that layout of the bars in a normal 16 bar ray


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Edited by rod222 - 07/25/2021 06:16 am
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Posted 07/25/2021   06:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Beg your pardon,
CARCOAR has segmented rays

Freeman
The rays in this image, appear not to mirror your example.
What is evident, the 10 does not sit central in the Rays design.

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Edited by rod222 - 07/25/2021 06:34 am
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Posted 07/25/2021   10:03 am  Show Profile Check fairdinkumstamps's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add fairdinkumstamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rod222, the 3R16 Carcoar example in Freeman is a case of mistaken identity - I think Bobby De La Rue has mentioned it at some stage.

Bobby De La Rue, when I compare it to one of my examples, I consider your stamp to have numeral 10 (type 3R16) from Carcoar.

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https://www.fairdinkumstamps.com Fair Dinkum Stamps - Specialising in stamps from early Australia and the colonies, Australian philatelic literature, catalogues, stockbooks and accessories.
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Posted 07/25/2021   11:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Just_fella to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Doesn't line up exactly....what's a 40 look like?
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Posted 07/25/2021   8:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just_fella, the 0 in the 40 3R16 type isn't as round.

Yes, the 10 3R16 illustration in Hugh's book is an inverted 501 of Cobbadah.

http://goscf.com/t/58014&whichpage=11

The stamp in question arrived from the UK this morning. I have two other Carcoars on DLR stamps (one illustrated on the linked page above) and I agree with fairdinkumstamps, it's a Carcoar. The rays align 100%.

Thank you folks, we do have the best stamp forum here
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Posted 07/25/2021   9:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Rod222, the 3R16 Carcoar example in Freeman is a case of mistaken identity - I think Bobby De La Rue has mentioned it at some stage.


Thank you.

Unsolved: Anyone know what is meant by "3 segments" in the type 3R16 rays ?
What does "Unrated" mean? Not enough seen to establish scarcity?
or many exist ?

Excerps from Campbell regarding 3 segments.

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Edited by rod222 - 07/25/2021 9:22 pm
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Posted 07/26/2021   12:37 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Rod,

Yes unrated (or not rated in Freeman) means common. For NSW, this means more than 50 copies known. If memory serves, the one office that had a LOT of different devices, where they are all rated common, is Parramatta.

The 3 segments refers to each ray in the device. Each ray is split into three dashes (or segments).

Hope this helps
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Posted 07/26/2021   12:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Bobby


Quote:
The 3 segments refers to each ray in the device. Each ray is split into three dashes (or segments).


Oh! my goodness, not my finest moment.
Cheers
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Posted 07/26/2021   01:21 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
All good Rod.

I'm the one who can't pick a postmark that falls into his area of so-called expertise
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Posted 07/26/2021   03:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I am not so sure Bobby,
you cracked the 3r16 105 Pmk.......
That has to be worthy of an Olympic Medal itself.
.
Smudge possibility: The postal clerk struck the stamp with fresh ink,
then picked up / moved the cover whilst still wet.
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Edited by rod222 - 07/26/2021 03:18 am
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