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Early Newfoundland Stamp Identification

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Valued Member

United Kingdom
82 Posts
Posted 07/31/2021   12:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add WillUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi I am asking the experts a few more questions. I bought a small early collection from Newfoundland and it had some interesting stamps. I have tried Stampworld and a few other online sources without real success. The seller's description was:2d red and lake and 6d red and lake. As far as I can see one looks to be the 1861/2 `hard paper (what does that mean) Dull rose 6P The other looks to be the 6P Cinnabar but perhaps it is the Orange 1860 Thin paper.... Wondering if someone could help a little with these.... Thanks again I used a scanner for the pictures but the colours seem to have washed. The second 6d is really quite striking - I will try the photos with a camera instead.
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Pillar Of The Community
India
534 Posts
Posted 07/31/2021   1:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Joy Daschaudhuri to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The postmarks are forged.
Most of these issues on so-called thin hard paper, floating in the philatelic market are remainders.
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
82 Posts
Posted 07/31/2021   1:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add WillUK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
So you indicate that the stamps are forged? What does "remainders" mean? Thanks
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
82 Posts
Posted 07/31/2021   1:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add WillUK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Remainders: Stamps which remain in official stocks even after becoming obsolete?
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7682 Posts
Posted 07/31/2021   1:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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United States
7648 Posts
Posted 07/31/2021   1:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
WillUK, the one that you find "striking" looks like it is a changeling - the co;or has changed due to external causes


Peter
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7682 Posts
Posted 07/31/2021   1:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
WillUK..I see what could be a possible Sperati forgery and a possible Oneglia forgery

Send them to BNAPS Malcolm Beck..He can help you.
Robert

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Canada
168 Posts
Posted 07/31/2021   10:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Trodent to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
My thoughts on this are.

Stamps 1 & 4 are legit

Stamp 2 - The I in Six is to narrow -So Fake
Stamp 3 - Cancel too dark for time period and the tail on the bottom 2's are too long and dont end up with an upwards curl

Trodent
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Posted 07/31/2021   11:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I believe Trodent is correct...
stamp 1 - Genuine
stamp 2 - Spiro forgery
stamp 3 - Spiro forgery
stamp 4 - Genuine

My opinion also.
Robert
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Posted 08/01/2021   12:19 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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United Kingdom
82 Posts
Posted 08/02/2021   03:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add WillUK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@rogdcam thanks for the very interesting link! I think it is determinative on the 2 pence you noted. This has the 7 dots to the left of postage not the original 6. It also has the issues with the C and O noted. "TYPEIII. Lithographed by the Spiro Brothers these
common forgeries are known in many colours. We have
ten-none of which resemble the genuine. The plate was
used over and over again eventually deteriorating to such
an extent that worn plate varieties hardly resemble earlier
printings. TypeIII forgeries have seven white circles to the
left of POSTAGE whereas the genuine have six."
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
82 Posts
Posted 08/02/2021   03:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add WillUK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Interestingly on the 6d the forgery characteristics he notes are not present. Example - The best test is to look at the letters "F" and "O" in
"Newfoundland". These letters almost touch in the genuine. They are distinctly apart in the forgery. We
illustrate various shades." In my suspect 6d the F and the D look to be touching and the flower (a thistle I think) to the right of the "St." does not seem to be enlarged. I will do some more comparisons.
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
82 Posts
Posted 08/02/2021   03:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add WillUK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Finally, thanks for sharing your expertise and very informative links. What is your best advice in relation to the two possible forgeries (one confirmed). Obviously, the author in the article collected these for reference - should I try to return them or keep them for what they are? As I paid for a small collection is it sensible to seek a price adjustment? I used to collect Caribbean coins and there were many forgeries - I hated the new fakes designed to defraud but the contemporary (in era) fakes were part of the history. Interestingly I suspected that some of the coin dealers simply cried "fake" to keep the business in house - ie it was fake if you were selling but not if they were selling.
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United States
671 Posts
Posted 08/03/2021   12:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tommy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Will in the UK:

Thanks for sharing images. Nothing more to add, WERT and Trodent beat me to the punch.

Agree that the link shared by Rogdam is the bible, the definitive source for forgeries of Newfoundland stamps. Must have at the handy, caveat emptor.

On a small bit of trivia : Ed Wener lived and passed away in New Zealand, though was an icon to NF collectors.

Hard to give advice on what to do, since I don't know how much you paid for these in a collection. If these were the only 4, then maybe. But if a only 2 of many, then not so sure. I guess, I'd probably at least let them know. People do collect these though, so be mindful of disposing of them. For me, I have a couple and the really invaluable ones, I just toss so that they don't get sold forward. The more valuable ones, I keep and note as such, since they have some reference value. You could also give them to Vincent Graves for examples, as they might want for comparison

Got any covers to share?
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Posted 08/03/2021   2:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
WillUK
One more thing { thanks Tommy }...don't brush off forgeries...Some of them can bring in good money.

Robert
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430 Posts
Posted 08/04/2021   12:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add archerg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Please, all here, be careful what you declare a forgery (and which forger) and what you declare genuine unless you absolutely know. The stamps must really be examined in person.
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