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Scott US #220 Supplementary Mail Type F

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 538Next Topic  
Valued Member

Canada
66 Posts
Posted 08/02/2021   10:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add imodius to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi All

I was going through my 220's looking for Supplementary Mail Type F. I found several that have the numerals 1 and 2 but I also found some that have letters where the numeral should be like "O" or "PO" or "C" or "E" or "F"or "D" or "L" or "B" or "P" or "H" or "G" and there is one with the numeral "6". Does anyone know what these ones are? Are they they the same supplementary mail type? I also noticed some supplementary nail type G's that have letters in the like "M" or "C" or "P". Do these letters still count towards the cancellation types?


Thanks
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Pillar Of The Community
3756 Posts
Posted 08/03/2021   12:16 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Many large U.S. cities in this era had numbered or lettered stations.

It would be useful if you could post scans of some of your stamps to help us better understand your exact question.
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Valued Member
Canada
66 Posts
Posted 08/03/2021   12:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add imodius to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a scan of some of them.
These are in the Supplementary mail type F pile that I pulled.
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Pillar Of The Community
3756 Posts
Posted 08/03/2021   08:48 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I see zero connection between what you show and "supplementary mail" cancels. Where are you finding this "type F" reference?

Again, these numbers typically designate either the station number or the device number. The letters typically designate a station also. As an example, here is the station list from New York City from the 1887 Postal Guide. Each station would have its station letter within the killer of its duplex handstamp.



Add: Here is a duplex cancel from Chicago, the CDS reads "Station G" at the bottom and has a matching "G" in the killer.

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Edited by John Becker - 08/03/2021 09:25 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
516 Posts
Posted 08/03/2021   09:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wtcrowe to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
According to the work United States Supplementary Mail written by Leonard Piszkiewicz in 2009 and published by the US Stamp Society (available for purchase on their website) only the number 1 and 2 can qualify for Supplementary Mail markings. In reality, due to the common use of that style killer, it needs to be on cover with a NY Supplementary marking.
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Valued Member
United States
395 Posts
Posted 08/03/2021   3:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Linus to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
imodius - None of the stamps you show are supplementary mail types, they are just regular cancels of that time period.

John Becker said:


Quote:
Where are you finding this "type F" reference?


John, I wondered the same thing. I looked in the 2021 Scott Specialized Catalogue of United States Stamps and Covers, and in the Introduction, in the front of the book, on page 38A, it explains and shows the supplementary type F and Type G cancels.

The listing for the stamps he shows, Scott #220, gives a + $3 for a Supp. Mail Type F or G cancel on a #220. But, as wtcrowe said, Type F is a combination handstamp, dial and killer, and stamps with the numeral 1 or 2 alone do not qualify for the Supplementary Mail cancel premium of + $3.

Linus
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Posted 08/03/2021   4:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Linus, Thanks for the reference. I see that the typing system appears to be Scott's, etc.

This thread shows the difficulty of stretching a partial cancel on a soaked-off stamp into postal history. Often times too much information is lost by soaking.
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Valued Member
Canada
66 Posts
Posted 08/03/2021   9:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add imodius to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the list of letter indicators list! I had no clue about them.

Assuming the numeral shows a one or a two, is a partial second cancellation valid for the premium? I have some that are marked 1 or 2 that have partial secondary cancellation or date marked. Do these still qualify for the premium? The scott specialized catalog makes no reference to say that a Supplementary type F cancellation must show a New York secondary cancellation specifically but it only states that the numeric cancellation alone disqualifies the premium and I have some like that too. They only show a single numeric cancellation but others show more than one,
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Valued Member
Canada
66 Posts
Posted 08/03/2021   10:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add imodius to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The ones that I have with numerals that are specifically new york though look like these. Are these G?





The closest thing I have to new york and 1 is this but it could be an H.



This one could be an H


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Posted 08/04/2021   11:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Imodius,
I sense you are trying to use (well, misuse) Scott's lettering sequence for a handful of supplementary mail cancels as a general typing system for common duplexed U.S. handstamps, which the Specialized catalog does not address.

Although I do not know of one at the moment, a better starting point would be an illustrated typing system for general U.S. handstamps cancels, of which supplementary mail cancels would be a very, very small subset.

That said, it can be huge fun to assemble a collection of numbers or letters. I got these pages in an old-time accumulation and have not gotten around to doing anything with them:


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Edited by John Becker - 08/04/2021 11:33 am
Valued Member
Canada
66 Posts
Posted 08/04/2021   9:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add imodius to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
John

With all the problems in trying to identify the supplementary cancels without a cover I give up on it. I like the idea you have with creating an alphabet or numbering. Let's face it. These groups of stamps have some of nastiest cancels on them. Even worse, there are people selling numeral cancels with half struck secondary cancels, not showing supplementary, on eBay; advertising a supplementary cancel. To someone like me, I would want to charge the premium except you and the others have shown that the secondary cancel must show supplementary, and new york as well as the numeral, so it probably was a good idea to check with you guys since the catalog is somewhat vague on the matter.


Anyways

Thanks, Cheers all.
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Valued Member
United States
395 Posts
Posted 08/04/2021   10:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Linus to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
imodius

I did not know what a Supplementary Mail Type F and Type G cancel was before you started this topic. I learned what they are, and now I will be looking for covers with these type cancels. I like learning new things on SCF, and thank you for starting this thread.

Cheers back to you,

Linus
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
622 Posts
Posted 08/05/2021   09:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wkusau to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I second Linus' comment that the thread was worthwhile and a good example of how to share and receive info. Good job all around.
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