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What Does "Never Hinged" Really Mean?

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Posted 08/20/2021   6:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add serf_tide to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I'm puzzled by what is "technically" Never Hinged. I see listings on eBay where it looks to me that (if they show the back) there is a hinge mark. Yet the listing is classified MNH. I bought (3) versions of Scott #774 from the APS store. (2) were listed as NH and (1) was listed as H. I'm going to show the pictures of the backs in order. #2 in this list is marked NH on the Submission Form. These are miniscule cost, so I'm not trying to challenge anything. I just want to understand, what is MNH and does just saying "Never hinged" still allow the back to be scuffed all up?



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Posted 08/20/2021   6:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"Never Hinged" means exactly what it says. Some eBay sellers do NOT say exactly what they should say



Peter
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Edited by Petert4522 - 08/20/2021 7:07 pm
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Posted 08/20/2021   6:51 pm  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The first appears not hinged, but with gum disturbance to what appears to be stamp-edging, the second hinged on both the too and bottom rows, one of which is edging, with disturbance/damage to the centre row, the third, either hinged or gum-disturbed on the bottom row, which also appears to be edging, rather than a stamp. As Iunderstand it, if these are US plate blocks, there shoukd be no hinging anywhere to meet Scott's definition of "mint never hinged".
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Posted 08/20/2021   6:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add serf_tide to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks. I see this quite a bit and wondered if most of the stamps having no hinge allows them to say it is not hinged. Kind of like Organic foods, which may only really need to be 70% Organic to qualify.
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Posted 08/20/2021   7:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Never hinged is utterly unambiguous unlike hinged, lightly hinged and very lightly hinged which are thrown about like New Year's confetti and are just as uniform. Russian material seems to be exceptionally prone to understating the state of hinging. 90% of the time a listing described as lightly hinged has a big old honking remnant stuck on like a leech on Humphrey Bogart in The African Queen.

You cannot be a little bit pregnant and a stamp cannot be never hinged and be hinged. Don't even get me started on gum skips and other "natural" gum holiday's that fall under never hinged because they were produced like that and so we will use the never hinged catalog value.
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Posted 08/20/2021   7:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add classic_paper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
MNH should be exactly and only that that; the description has to fit the entire article. The middle sheet might best be described as MNH/MH or something like that.
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Posted 08/20/2021   7:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add uboatnut to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"Never Hinged" means just that - there has never been a hinge on the stamp. There should be no remnant or signs of where a removed hinge had been. That includes parts of hinges use to reinforce perforations in multiples.

With plate blocks, "NH" should include the selvedge.

If I were buying a NH plate number single, I would expect the selvedge to be NH as well.
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Edited by uboatnut - 08/20/2021 11:47 pm
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Posted 08/20/2021   10:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add No1philatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Silly not to state factual information. Hinging, gum disturbance, no gum, scrapes, scuffs, etc. should all be stated. Clear descriptions with no ambiguity is best. Customers are happy and seller is not going to get returns. If the stamps are MNH thats great, but if hinged on selvedge they should state it. "Hinged in selvedge only, stamps MNH."
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Posted 08/20/2021   11:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add serf_tide to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the response. I felt that NH should mean no hinge marks anywhere. When I opened #2 above, I was kind of disappointed.
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Posted 08/20/2021   11:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If I were cataloging these for a lot, none would be NH. All have reasons to not get that designation.
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Posted 08/21/2021   12:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add shermae to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Silly not to state factual information. Hinging, gum disturbance, no gum, scrapes, scuffs, etc. should all be stated.


Unfortunately, this is frequently not the case. For MNH stamps, gum disturbance and (especially) toning, spotting, and foxing are frequently not mentioned. One has to be vigilant to ask questions first.
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Posted 08/21/2021   08:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add APS-ISWSC Member to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would be way beyond "kind of disappointed" ... it's flat out fraud! Hope you got / can get our money back; even if it's a trivial amount, the seller needs to be aware ...
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Posted 08/21/2021   10:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Since a picture is worth a thousand words, the best thing is to be able to show and see the back gummed side of postage stamps. Those who show the back in their listings do buyers a very big favor. Before buying any mint stamps, it is worth asking to see the back in order to avoid any disappointments.
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Edited by jogil - 08/21/2021 11:03 am
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Posted 08/21/2021   11:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add erilaz to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
For MNH stamps, gum disturbance and (especially) toning, spotting, and foxing are frequently not mentioned. One has to be vigilant to ask questions first.

I once bought a set of U.S. special handling stamps that was described as MNH. Technically that was true, but the seller conveniently neglected to mention that all of them had apparently been affixed to an album page with a spot of gum or glue, and all of them had thins as a result.
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Posted 08/21/2021   12:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I consider MNH to be essentially perfect, unhinged, undisturbed, unglazed, unbended/uncreased, untone-spotted gum. To me, it is a condition, above and beyond just a state of being. The definition gets fuzzy when we are talking about natural gum bends/creases, but if someone says they are selling an NH stamp, I expect the gum side to be pristine everywhere on the piece, selvedge and all.

I often see descriptions saying 'NH' and then a modifier talking about natural gum bends/creases. TECHNICALLY, it may not be hinged, but I wouldn't call it NH. The modifier, though, tells me what I need to know. As long as there is full disclosure, I can accept the NH moniker. I translate that in my head as "NH-ish", which, as others have said, is not NH. With some stamps, like USA C13-15, or C18, you can almost EXPECT gum bends/creases. Even so, they should be called out. One of those WITHOUT gum bends/creases can command a premium, so calling out bends/creases is especially important.

It rankles me to see a description like, "Pristine Never Hinged with a few spots of mount glazing." If I am looking for 'my' NH, then I just move along.
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Edited by mootermutt987 - 08/21/2021 12:30 pm
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Posted 08/21/2021   1:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stephen J Bukowy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Never Hinged means just that, Never Hinged. Mint to me means as it would have been sold by the Post Office. In some cases, that may include gum skips or bends. I would still want to know about them before I made the purchase. I think that sellers should display both sides of the stamp. Would also like to see the various certifiers do the same.
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