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Are Prices In Catalogue Realistic

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Posted 11/27/2021   2:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add roadrunner88 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"grading...it has created more value and....more profit...."

That was the original intent of grading; to jack up prices people have to pay. I still buy some occasional classic US material and have yet to buy anything graded.
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Posted 11/27/2021   2:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
to jack up prices people have to pay


People do not have to pay for a graded stamp. The option is available.
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Posted 11/27/2021   3:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
to jack up prices people have to pay


Where did this conspiracy theory come from? What garbage!
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Posted 11/28/2021   06:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree that one motive behind grading is to create a better investment like environment for stamp collecting where stamps are more like a commodity. This should lead to higher demand and therefore higher prices. Whether one considers this good or bad is a matter of opinion. I do not collect graded stamps.
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Al
Edited by angore - 11/28/2021 06:48 am
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Posted 11/28/2021   10:03 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add canyoneer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I liked the good old days. A PF cert to verify stamp identity and soundness (no regum, repairs, reperfs, etc). Besides that, leave the appearance and freshness decision to the the buyer. Don't need a number to tell me something has great centering. When I see common stamps from the 30's and 40's sell for $50 or more because it has a PSE 98 cert, it makes me shudder.
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Posted 11/28/2021   10:52 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Grading has been around since stamp collecting began; collectors looked at a stamp and passed a judgment as to how much it appealed to them. I think the push back began when eye appeal was subjectively quantified. There is no hobby-wide standard, grading/condition of paper is ephemeral, and it monetizes the breakup of significant multiples.

But the breaking up of significant multiples would occur with or without a quantified grading industry. I see little value in debating whether or not the grading industry adds to what is already occurring. Do we also push back on auction firms using puffery to describe an eye appealing stamps? This too is encouraging the breakup of significant multiples.

I do not buy graded stamps but I am attracted to stamps which appeal to my eye; I do not need (or want to pay for) a third party to tell me what appeals to me. I recognize that my support of eye appealing stamps encourages the breakup of significant multiples but at least I am cutting out the middle man.
Don
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Posted 11/28/2021   11:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As I have said before (too many times probably) if you are new to the hobby and confused by all of the ambiguity, particularly on eBay, when it comes to describing a stamps centering (everything is VF to Superb no matter how ridiculous the claim is) than grading is a very good thing. An 85 is an 85 is an 85 and so on. You can still view stamps that are graded 85 and then buy stamps with similar attributes that do not have graded certificates.

Grading also helps tremendously when selling/trading. No more dealer selling at XF and buying at Fine. A 90 is a 90 is a 90.

Finally, grading undoubtedly brought more people and their money into the hobby.
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Posted 11/28/2021   12:11 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
...An 85 is an 85 is an 85 and so on... A 90 is a 90 is a 90...

I disagree. Please point me to the industry standard which everyone uses so that a 90 is a 90 is a 90.
If there was a single spec/standard, if subjectiveness was not a big part of formalized grading, then we would see no variation when the same stamp is submitted but it get different grades. Tell me with a straight face that you are sure that certain dealers or those who are frequent customers do not have more influence with the grading firms.

In my opinion formalized grading is like Olympic diving or gymnastics, a subjective practice in which monkey business/influence peddling can occur.

I do agree that formalized grading is another way of collecting and that we should support whatever/however other folks collect. I am fine with others who support formalized grading but let's be clear eyed about its 'downsides'.
Don
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Posted 11/28/2021   12:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Aren't some auction prices more realistic?
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Posted 11/28/2021   1:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bookbndrbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It shows how fluid/imperfect prices are. It depends on whose eyes are watching and whether or not they are interested at that point in time.
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Posted 11/28/2021   2:06 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Agreed. Rarity (supply) is something that many can get their heads wrapped around but the demand side can be tricky. There has been a few threads about market values this year but I have not seen anyone mention how demand, and its complex impact on market value, can be localized.
In other words and from my chair, it appears that during COVID a number of collectors have migrated toward SANS and other non-eBay auction venues. SO it could be that while we have seen upward movement on prices over the last 12-18 months, it may not reflect more collectors in the market but rather a change in how they buy. COVID stay at home has given them more opportunity to get involved in alternative venues. If so, then post-COVID the prices should settle back down to pre-COVID ranges. And of course inflation has also played a role in the upward movement of stamp prices. But all of this reflects the complexity of the 'demand' side of the market value equation.
Don
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Posted 11/28/2021   2:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I disagree. Please point me to the industry standard which everyone uses so that a 90 is a 90 is a 90.


I could have phrased it better but my point was that if you shopping for a fault free stamp that is centered to a certain degree grading will be far more realistic than sellers calling everything VF, XF or Superb. A graded stamp will also have been examined for faults. If collectors wish to have non-graded certificates they should go for it.

We all can go on eBay right now and throw up a bevy of images for XF stamps that do not have XF centering per Scott or Siegel etc. and have not been examined for faults. We can also throw up images of graded 90's that are difficult to tell from one another when it comes to centering. I would turn the tables and ask that images of graded stamps of a certain numerical value and that are very dissimilarly centered be posted.

I can attest from personal experience that if a collector should wish to sell, whether or not they anticipated doing so, they will fare far better with certified material and far, far better if single stamps are well graded. When I disposed of portions of my US collection items that were virtually identical as far as quality and centering goes realized substantially different amounts and took different lengths of time to sell based upon whether or not they were graded. The graded items did the best by far.

Are there anomalies? You bet. Are there large variances in assigning grading values? I have not seen it. Centering is all done the same. Other factors are subjective but given the weighting used to determine the overall number the subjective parts do not skew values all that much.
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Posted 11/28/2021   3:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Not all "90s" are equal.
Specifically, consider:
a 95 with a small fault bringing it down to a 90 -vs- a fault-free 90.
Both grade "90", but they are not the same to the arm's distance view.

It seems to me that many collectors see "grading" as ONLY a centering score, and that a better way of communicating a grade number would be something like: "90-10=80", for a stamp centered at 90, but with faults, which would be listed. At least it would start with a fairly objective, measurable number, then list the adjustments.

*disclaimer, I do not own any graded stamps, and consider myself grading-neutral.
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Posted 11/28/2021   3:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I could not agree more John. It would be very helpful to break up the categories.

PS: I would hope that any faults that lower a grade would be called out as on a normal cert and that has been my experience for the most part.
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Posted 11/28/2021   3:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Some organizations, such as the PF will not grade damaged or faulty stamps. So there is no need for that type of grading system from them.
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